Flash Masters

Threads v Twitter v Voices: What is the best social media?

• Neil Redfern & Helen Williams • Episode 44

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Meta launches Threads to take down Twitter - but is it any good? What if there was a perfect social media platform? One that perfectly balances user engagement, content delivery, and genuine connections? Well, we might not have found it yet, but we sure did take a crack at it in this latest episode of the Flash Masters podcast. Join Helen and Neil as we dissect Meta's latest venture, Threads, and its potential implications on the photogaphy industry. We also reminisce about our experiences with the old guards of social media - Twitter, Ello, MySpace, and Clubhouse, and how they've changed over time.

But it's not all about social media. We sneak in some behind-the-scenes anecdotes from our recent wedding in the land of Wales. From tackling tricky lighting conditions in church to capturing real moments, we've got some stories that are sure to tickle your imagination. Social media and photography certainly make for an intriguing cocktail, and we've stirred it well, just for you.

To top it off, we've got some Flash Masters news and a hint of what's cooking for our next episode. We explore the addictive nature of social media platforms, how algorithms have mastered the art of keeping users engaged, and how we can perhaps turn the tide. So, grab a seat and tune in to this enlightening and entertaining episode of Flash Masters podcast. You never know, you might just find the clues to creating the perfect social media platform. Or, at the very least, you'll enjoy a hearty discussion on the exciting confluence of social media and photography.

Join us in the Flash Masters community:

Website: https://flashmasters.co/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flashmasters/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@flash-masters

Flash Masters is hosted by:

Helen Williams: https://www.instagram.com/helenwilliamsphotography/
Neil Redfern: https://www.instagram.com/neilredfern/

Neil:

Welcome to the Flash Masters podcast. I'm Chuck from CG Weddings and I'm proud to be a member of Flash Masters community. Flash Masters recognizes and celebrates the best flash photography through awards, education and community. And to join us, visit flashmastersco. Here are your hosts, Helen Williams and Neil Redfern. Hey everybody, welcome to episode 44 of the Flash Masters podcast with me, Neil Redfern and me.

Helen:

Helen.

Neil:

Williams, and in today's episode we're going to be talking about social media because recording this podcast in the week that Facebook or Meta have released threads, which is a brand new social media, i think, all designed to basically try and take over Twitter. So we're going to talk about that, because it's big news for the industry, and just talk about social media in general and maybe even come with a few ideas. If we were going to design our own social media, what would we want it to include? or more, maybe, more importantly, not include, right, are you a fan of social media, helen? No, oh, you love to scroll.

Helen:

Oh, i do. Maybe that's the problem, though That's the issue. It just takes up too much of your life. But I won't get into that quite yet.

Neil:

I'll leave all that clickbait drama for later in the podcast, but first of all I was going to ask you how your weekend's been, helen, and whether you shot a wedding. but I know you shot a wedding because I was there with you.

Helen:

You did a wonderful job. Thank you for being my.

Neil:

Yeah, i was second shooting for Helen. This week. We went abroad as well, a destination wedding. You laughing at It counts.

Helen:

Yes, and I shouldn't laugh. actually, i took you to the my beautiful homeland of Wales.

Neil:

Yeah, a whole different country, so that's a destination wedding. It might only be an hour and a half in the car, but I still think it counts. But how do you feel that wedding went?

Helen:

It went really well. However, i think we will both agree that our jaws like separately hit the floor when arriving at church.

Neil:

It was certainly something I wasn't expecting, and boy was I not impressed, yeah it's funny because in the last podcast we were talking about the weddings that we just shot, and I remember talking about how, with that church of last week where I was second shooting for another flashmasses member, nick and Paul from Madison Pitcher, at that church you were only allowed to photograph the bride coming down the aisle and then you would banish the back, so nothing at all from the front. This time we could shoot whatever we wanted, but I'll let you describe what that church was like.

Helen:

Oh, dear lord, oh yeah, oh dear lord. Indeed, all I could say maybe I shouldn't say this The person who installed the lighting in that church should repent, because that was absolutely sinful.

Neil:

It was awful. So yeah, it was orange lighting at the front, so everyone just looks like umpulumpas from Willy Wonka, but the back blue, which is nice.

Helen:

And right at the front was also a different colour. So the two ends of the churches had you know what probably would have been like a normal kind of Kelvin. However, the middle part and where all the pews were and people were sat, i've never seen this shade of orange before. It was like they threw like two full CTO gels on them.

Neil:

Yeah, i've never seen anything like it. Well, i love the fact that the lighting in the church wasn't actually directed on the couple either, no, so they're in constant shade.

Helen:

Yes, so your images from the back were way better than mine from the front, because all I had from the front was a bright blue back of church Excuses. Then we had all of the guests that were lit orange and then the lights stopped behind the bride and groom. The bride and groom were then just had no real light hitting them. So yeah, and then just behind me were all the choir were. oh, have to do a shout out to the choir in a second, but they also had blue light there again.

Neil:

So yeah, trying to edit those is going to be a lot of black and white, isn't it A lot of artistic monochrome?

Helen:

I think I would say Yes well, i believe that I shot the ceremony on manual white balance and I think I went down to the lowest Kelvin of 2200 Kelvin and it still was a little too warm.

Neil:

My favourite thing is how those lights flickered so well as well. So you have to shoot at like 125th tops shutter speed or else you're going to get all horrible banding even on a Sony A9.

Helen:

Yeah, and an A9 too.

Neil:

Yeah, that was my favourite.

Helen:

As soon as they came down the aisle I switched to silent mode because one of mine is an A7 3 as well, so I usually have if I'm shooting on the 85. You know, i set that to 250th as the bride walks down, so I had to have my shutter on as she came down. But, yeah, when she got to the front, on both of my cameras. So one's an A9, which usually deals fine with banding and flickering, and then obviously my A7 3. They both had to go to 100th of a second, otherwise they looked well, even worse than they already looked, with some of the bride's face looking blue, the back of her hair looking orange. Yeah, it was challenging.

Neil:

It was, but apart from that, the day was really good, wasn't it? It was a brilliant day for moments.

Helen:

Oh, i loved it.

Neil:

So good for that. But because I got to church first, i just remember coming out and saying to you right, there's good news and bad news. Good news is you can shoot whatever you want in the church. The bad news is it's horrible in there.

Helen:

Yeah, my honestly. My jaw dropped and I think there might have been a few guests in the back of church who caught that. I was like whoopsie. There may have been some blasphemous exclusives that came out of my mouth when I saw that line.

Neil:

Should I say if anyone's got to see any of the photographs that you've put online now, is it four or five on your Instagram already now?

Helen:

Yes.

Neil:

So do you want to give your Instagram a plug?

Helen:

Oh well, yes, of course it's Helen Williams photography.

Neil:

Yes, you've got to go to Helen's account. You can see some of the pictures that we took at that wedding, say, an amazing day. It's just funny talking about that and it's just funny coming off the back of the previous week for me anyway where you weren't allowed to take any photographs at the front. It's just. It's just annoying that like it seems that so many churches in the UK just seem to want to challenge you, whether that's you're not allowed to shoot, whether it's we're going to give you horrible white balance and just see what you can do with it. I mean, at least we can put certain shots in black and white, we can use brushes to change certain areas of the image, white balance wise, so we can get away with it a little bit. I feel sorry for the videographer.

Helen:

Yeah, i don't know what he's going to do.

Neil:

literally I moved to Mexico and just deleted all the social media.

Helen:

But yeah, i will say, though, as difficult as that was, it was an absolutely brilliant wedding.

Neil:

It was.

Helen:

And actually the ceremony of service. The Vicar herself was so lovely. I have never seen a Vicar really sort of encourage everyone to go wild for the first time.

Neil:

Yeah, she was lovely.

Helen:

And they did and everyone stood up. It was rapturous applause. They had a male voice choir which you know, especially coming from Wales myself, was as soon as I hear a male voice choir, it gets me, it gives you all the feels. Anyway, it was an incredible day, incredible ceremony, but literally the worst light I have ever shot in and I've probably done way over 400 wedding.

Neil:

So But big shout out to the Vicar, because I don't think she installed the lights herself. But she did her job brilliantly, so yeah she couldn't have been nicer. So, yeah, it was a really, really fun wedding and I just thought it was funny to mention that. So we move on to some flashmasters news. We're not going to do too much on this because last episode was a huge update, because the previous three episodes we had guests on, but a couple of things we want to mention.

Neil:

Firstly, we are being joined to on two days time two days time by one of our flashmasters ambassadors, the incredibly talented Ellie Baguino Chico, for how I shot it live stream, which is going to be really, really good. So, as always, some of that video will be available to watch on our YouTube channel, but the majority is going to be available to watch again. Well, obviously you can watch it live if you are a flashmasters member, because we always stream the streams live within the Facebook group that we have and that means you can ask any questions you want live on the stream. But we will also make the full stream available the day after within the flashmasters website, so you can log in to the website and then the stream will be there along with all the rest. But say it will be also available to rewatch on our YouTube channel, but only the first little bit of it, just to wet your appetite yes, and see what you're missing.

Helen:

We are so excited for that interview. Ellie is just one of the most inspirational and lovely people who is so creative and I don't think I know anyone else who just her level of dedication and commitment to creating her personal projects and themed shoots etc.

Neil:

It's going to be really exciting yeah, i've had the pleasure of speaking to Ellie before on one of my patreon live streams and now remember, on that stream she just inspired me so much that I just wanted to go out and shoot straight away. Afterwards I know it will be exactly the same in the flashmasters how I shot it as well. I can't wait to see as well the images that she's going to share and how she created them. So that's going to be an amazing stream, so be prepared to be very, very inspired.

Helen:

The only thing is I think I'm doing the interview of both myself and Ellie a chatterbox. It's going to be a long one, yeah but it will be filled with enthusiasm and lots of learning.

Neil:

I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will.

Helen:

So, in addition to Ellie coming on to the flashmasters stream within the Facebook group, we do have one other notice almost to give, and that is about our flashmasters survey. Now, obviously, we started flashmasters and launched it in September of last year and we're really keen to know all of the feedback from our members and those who are part of the sort of how do I say the outer community of flashmasters, those who are maybe listening to the podcast, who are signed up to our mailing list but haven't joined yet.

Helen:

So for those of you who are members, please can you fill in the survey? the link will be in the Facebook group. And then, for those of you who do listen to the podcast but aren't a member yet, please keep an eye out in your inbox because there will be a survey coming out to you with the chance to win a mag mod flash bar.

Neil:

A professional flash kit from mag mod.

Helen:

Yes, it's the second one, the new one, which is smaller and fancier.

Neil:

Yeah, that's really exciting. So, basically, yeah, we're so keen to get feedback because, as always, as Helen just said, we want to constantly be improving flashmasters, improving the service that we're giving to our members and find out more about what our members want, what they, what they want to see, basically so we can provide them with that. And the more that we learn, the more we more feedback we get, the better we'll be able to do that. So we're really keen to hear from from our members, but also, as you say, non-members as well. Maybe that's thinking oh, maybe I'm maybe want to join, but I'm not quite sure yet. What are the reasons that maybe you're not joining? you know, we're really interested to know.

Helen:

Yeah, i think it's going to be interesting to see those who haven't joined, how much people really know about the education side as well.

Neil:

I agree, i think that's the thing I think at the moment. I'm just guessing. I imagine a lot of people who aren't members look at flashmasters as just being an award site.

Helen:

Yes, and you know, when we look back at what we've produced, even just in the last couple of months especially your introduction to flash streams that you've done you know there's five hours of incredible content that is suitable for people who haven't even picked up a flash before right the way through. So I know that you know members who've been in this industry for 20 plus years have learned something from it.

Neil:

Yeah, that's the thing. We're trying to get the message out that flashmasters is predominantly a community that is based around education and the awards, like a really nice cherry on the top of the cake, basically. But we want Flash Masters to sort of stand on its own two feet in the form of education and community And, as you just said, helen, like that stream hopefully is going to be very, very useful to all our members and all those members that join in the future, and that's available to watch as soon as you join. Because we just have a belief that many people are maybe a little bit hesitant to maybe join us in the community because they think, oh, look at how good the images are that are winning those awards.

Neil:

I can't produce that work yet, so I'm going to hold off until I feel like I can, and we want to really reach out to you and let you know that Flash Masters is for everyone. It's a safe place for everybody to come and learn together. In fact, one of the things that we went to at the end of the last podcast and we should mention it now is if you are interested in joining but you maybe got some questions you're a little bit hesitant, you're like, oh, i'm just not sure. Please reach out to us, send us an email at hello at flashmastersco And we can just set up a 20 minute zoom between yourself and me and Helen And we can just chat to you about what Flash Masters can offer you and hear about what you're looking for and whether we can help you with that. So yeah, if you are interested, just reach out to us. We'd love to have a chat to you.

Helen:

Yeah, there's also an option on that email that's going out to people with the Flash Masters survey. That gives you a chance and an opportunity to ask us any questions as well and set up that zoom call as well.

Neil:

Yeah, excellent. Last thing I want to mention before we get into the topic of today's podcast. it's just a thank you, really. We've had some more reviews of the podcast. So we'd always say, if you would like to leave the review, we would love it, but don't bother. if you don't want to give us five stars, don't waste your time. But if you want to give us a little cheeky five star review, we'd love you forever and we will read out your review on the podcast. So, first up, thank you to PA Bertie. Pretty sure it's going to be Paul Burton who said as a wedding videographer, i find this so useful and he's still relevant. There are just so many golden nuggets of information amongst what is a funny and entertaining conversation between Helen and Neil. As one of Neil's Patreon members, i know how much Flash Masters means to them both. I don't know where they find the time to create such great content. Oh, thank you, paul.

Helen:

The money is in the post.

Neil:

I also know both Helen and Neil and this is 100% authentic them. You guys are awesome And I would encourage any wedding photographer to listen and consider joining Flash Masters for the education and community, which will give you so many of the tools and information to start winning awards. You guys are smashing it. That is so lovely. Thank you, Paul, And that's exactly what we've just been talking about, So that really means a lot. Thank you very much, Paul. Also a review here from A Underscore Jack, who I think is Adrian Jackson, And he's very kindly said. I finally got round to leave my review. I've listened to Helen and Neil's Flash Masters podcast since episode one.

Helen:

One of the.

Neil:

OGs. Thank you, adrian. As a member of Neil's Patreon and Flash Masters, these podcasts are the perfect complement to both communities. Each podcast brings education and discussion and an informal and often amusing style. This is not meant to be a laughing matter, adrian. The podcast are predominantly centered around the wedding photography world, but most certainly of use to all photographers, both experienced and new to photography. In all fields. Helen Neil's presentation style is very natural and perfect for listening to whilst editing or whilst in the car. Many and varied guests also complement each edition. Thank you so much, adrian. And lastly, from Andy Sidders, there's more. There's another one, another five star one. Thank you so much, andy. Flash Masters is a must listen podcast for wedding photographers. Neil and Helen's natural chemistry, humor and expertise in the field make the podcast a lively and engaging companion during editing sessions.

Neil:

I look forward to listening to Flash Masters each and every week. Thank you so so much.

Helen:

Oh, that's really sweet Because. I don't I don't see these before you read them out. And yet it's lovely to hear. Yeah.

Neil:

And again, if you'd like us to read out your review, please go to Apple Podcasts and you can leave one there. To my knowledge, that's the only place you can actually write a review. You can rate podcasts on Spotify, but it's just like a number, it's a bit boring, whereas we can actually see what you write if you were. If you want to go to Apple Podcasts, right, ok. So in the past week, metta have released their new social media, which is aimed to take on the might of Elon Musk's Twitter, and Mark Zuckerberg has released threads. Oh no. So what's your first thought telling on threads?

Helen:

It really was No, why? I don't want another social media, but I still joined.

Neil:

Yeah, so why did you join then?

Helen:

FOMO. It was the FOMO. Yeah, Obviously this was going through all the differently known photography groups, and what's this going to mean for business? Oh, it's another thing we have to jump on And someone went. well, i don't know what I'm going to do with it, but I've taken the account, so no one can take my name.

Neil:

Yeah, but you, i've said this. No one can take your name.

Helen:

It's linked to your Instagram account, but I didn't know that, And that's what drew me in. I was like I'm not doing it. I was. I was ready to start my feed and go.

Neil:

no, And then actually 24 minutes later. Yeah.

Helen:

That thought of like oh, but somebody else could take my name, What? if someone else registers as Helen Williams photography and then post some terrible photos that people think are mine Or they could be better, and then I'm just going to be really jealous. So the FOMO got me and I made an account, very reluctantly.

Neil:

So it's only been out a few days, So my understanding which I've not read up on it, I've just literally joined myself is basically that threads is an accompaniment to Instagram. So, whereas Instagram is designed for photo sharing and image sharing predominantly, obviously it's now got very much into video.

Neil:

Yeah, With Reels and stories. obviously, Threads is supposedly more of a text based version of Instagram. So basically just think of Twitter and that is threads. Now one of the funny things is already that threads allows you to post images. So now there's this weird thing, and I found this. Even like three days ago I posted on Instagram and thought what do I do now in threads? So I just basically did the same post on thread, which feels a bit pointless.

Helen:

Yeah.

Neil:

So with any social media, i think, as always, people joined first off, and he's always just like. I will say it's exciting, you know, as far as these boring things go, because it's like day one of a new social media And I think that's always quite exciting. But then the next day, the day after that, you're like right, can I be bothered going back to it? And it'll be always be interesting to see how it goes. Now I know that they've had something crazed like a hundred million sign ups, but I think one of the reasons for this is because it's so easy to start an account, because if you download the app, the threads app, when you first go to log in, it basically just says do you want to import your Instagram data? You say yes to that And it will already start following the people that you're following on Instagram. They will already be following you. So you've not starting from zero. You're starting with a following and following the people that you're already, people you've got an interest in. So that's quite good.

Neil:

But I then thought to think I don't know where it differs from Instagram. My advice to any photographers listening is to join, because why would you not really, even if you don't want to actually post on there, yet I think you might as well join and start letting people follow you and things like that, because if it does really take off, then you've got a bit of a foundation on there. So what we thought we'd do in this podcast is basically just talk about social media in general, and then I thought it'd be quite fun to come up with our own perfect social media, if such a thing exists. So if we go right back to the beginning, what's your first? what was the first type of social media that you use, helen?

Helen:

I think I might have had.

Neil:

I'm sure you're on POP compared to me. Yeah, I think I might have had a MySpace. Right.

Helen:

So this is interesting because I didn't I think I did, but I don't really remember much about it, so maybe I didn't Facebook was definitely like yeah, I remember Facebook when it was.

Neil:

I'd go on to Facebook originally, and this would probably be about 2007 or 2008. I don't know if you were on that early, but Yeah, I think so.

Neil:

That's university for me, Yeah you could put it go on like once a week, because there wasn't enough people on there updating stuff. Plus, there was no feed. Then, if I remember right, people just had a page I think it might have been called The Wall, was it, i can't remember Like a profile page, and you just put things that you like on it. There was no way of updating it in terms of a status update or anything like that. Well, that's the first sort of social media I can remember, and then I did join Twitter really early on I think about 2008, again that sort of time, which was very early days then, because I used to listen to a podcast called This Week in Photography TWIP years ago. Well, obviously, then I mean, we're going back 14 years. Wow, yeah, podcasts weren't really a thing then, but obviously, well, it was a thing. Sorry, obviously I was listening to them, but it wasn't mainstream.

Neil:

That was at the time when I was just absorbing everything about photography, whereas now it seems a bit like a bus on holiday sometimes. Then I just wanted any spare time that I got. I was reading books, i was getting books out from the library, remember those? Ooh, yeah, hard copy books, like social media, but in physical form. But yeah, so I was getting books out. I just wanted to absorb everything I could. So part of that was listening to podcasts. I remember when I had a proper job I'd go into work on a tram and I'd listen to these podcasts. Anyway, they would talk about Twitter. Yeah, so I joined Twitter then And I just think I used to be quite into Twitter because if I look at my let me just have a look now, see if I can find out, because I barely post on Twitter now at all I do still like Twitter for trending topics. If you've ever watched it on anything on TV and you want like live funny commentary of something, we have a bit of a guilty pleasure.

Helen:

Don't be watching.

Neil:

Married at First Sight.

Helen:

Oh, we love the Married at First Sight Australia.

Neil:

But we've never watched it live, have we've never? No, we've always been on catch up. But I reckon that if you watch, like Married at First Sight, when it's on live, following like the Twitter stream, for it will be really funny And that's where I think Twitter is really good. But I'm just going to see, can I see how many tweets I've made? I can't on here Just just um have a look, just a little do, do, do, do.

Helen:

I don't know if I've got a. Would you ever on Twitter much? I created an account for my business and I probably posted twice And that was the end of me. And Twitter, um, i don't. I can't remember if I could even log in now. Yeah, it just wasn't for me. I never really got it. I'm not really a person of few words, am I? So when it first came out, it only allowed so many characters. I was like I'm still on my introduction. I can't fit what I need to say, you know, so few characters. So, um, yeah, twitter didn't really suit my communication style.

Neil:

Yeah, I get. Oh, there it is. Yeah, At the top. I've actually done 12 and a half thousand tweets Now. when you bear in mind that now I tweet maybe like once a month, and it would normally- be like yeah, well, i don't really tweet, i just. I just what's it called retweet.

Neil:

I just retweet like things that I like, or maybe a funny, so I don't do very much on there at all anymore. In fact, if I could just see there, my last tweet was June 24th the Manics just incredible. Before that, when did the Arctic monkeys turn into headliners at the Phoenix club, which, if you're not into the Phoenix club Phoenix Knights rather, or Arctic monkeys you won't get off. Anyway, it doesn't matter, but I will treat like once a month tops We have 12 and a half thousand tweets I've done so. I used to be on it quite a lot.

Helen:

You've had a lot of thoughts.

Neil:

But yet years ago, years and years ago, and then I just went a bit out of it And I think that coincided with just getting a little bit board almost as social media in general.

Helen:

Yeah, i don't know what to say to that, other than Twitter was just not for me And I yes, so we'll see where this threads goes. I'm not really I don't have much to add to the Twitter sphere, because I just ignored it.

Neil:

No, and then, like you say, then it was my space. I don't remember when that came into play. I just didn't ever get involved. I don't know anything about my space.

Helen:

This is a bit weird. Now I'm looking back, i don't think I had a my space. I didn't. The only thing I know about my space is back when I was a high school teacher and I had a year 10, which were like they were at that point, they like 15 going on 16. And I had. We had our twice a day when you had to register the kids to make sure they hadn't like bunked off and they were still in school and it was in a computer room. So the kids had always logged on to the computer room and they would be on my space, not me, i think. So yeah, that was another useless story there, so I also ignored my space.

Neil:

OK, do you remember? Hello ELLO.

Helen:

No.

Neil:

No, that was a very short lived one. It might these things might still be going, i don't know, but that was another rival to Facebook.

Helen:

I haven't even heard of it.

Neil:

Yeah, i don't know, and that would have been. I'm going to get this wrong. I want to say, like seven or eight years ago, it was a rival to Facebook And the whole reason that ELLO came about is because Facebook started to get monetized and it's that's become more money orientated and people's reach started to drop. And ELLO, if I remember correctly, was sort of like the, the ethical response, like the ethical alternative, so people would sign up to there and there was supposed to be no ads on there. Yeah, ello. Helen is currently looking at her phone to try and see.

Helen:

No, i was just having a look because I was thinking, oh, you're going to come on to Instagram and I just know I'm lying, i'm not looking at ELLO.

Neil:

Yeah, so.

Helen:

I can.

Neil:

Well, the other one I was going to mention and I actually really like this was Clubhouse.

Helen:

I also did not do this.

Neil:

Helen is not a great guest to have on this podcast, But Clubhouse was, I thought, really clever, especially because of the time that it got big, Certainly in the UK. It had been around in the US, I remember, for a little while, But it became really big during lockdown in the UK. This one, I'm surprised you don't remember it because it sort of caught on like wildfire. So while we're all in our houses, not allowed to go anywhere, Clubhouse was a really good little distraction and Clubhouse's thing which you could, once you joined up when she signed up, you could go into what they call rooms and then you would hear people talking. So you would have say I would set up a room and it would be say I'm going to talk about podcasting. You could hit listen to me, talk about podcasts and then you would have maybe you know, if you enter that room you will become part of the audience and you could put your hand up metaphorically and that could then invite you onto the stage And then we both talk about podcasting and it was like a good debate.

Neil:

So it's almost like imagine going into, say, a theatre and then there's somebody on the stage or a few people on the stage talk about a subject, You could think, oh, I want to listen to them talk about that, And it would all be audio, So there was no text at all. You just be listening in. And then you think, oh, actually I want to make a point on this, and you put your hand up and then you'd be invited onto the stage by the speaker And then you could say what you want to say and then he would put you back into the audience. It was really clever and it did really take off Again, I'm very talking UK specific here during lockdown. And it comes to the point where people are on it. I remember spending like a few hours a day on it for a while. It was a short lived thing, maybe like a month, but it was really popular, You don't remember?

Helen:

that Well, i do remember it, but I couldn't join it because at that point I was still an Android user.

Neil:

Yes, Good point. It was Apple only for quite a long time, yeah.

Helen:

So yeah, i missed out on that one too, yeah.

Neil:

And then I think you're right. Yeah, I think by the time they opened it up because I know you can, anybody can join it now When they did open it up to Android, I think the fascination and novelty had wore off And it's still going now, but it's normally just all about people talk about like NFTs and how to earn money and stuff like that and investments. It's just not got that photography and that sort of friendly vibe anymore. Whenever I've gone on it I've not known a single person on there anymore And it's just lost all its appeal. But I thought the concept was really cool.

Helen:

Yeah.

Neil:

Not for you.

Helen:

No, I'm just having a little look back at this Helloco And I mean I won't worry about it now, It's very old. Yeah, well, it says it now. It's the creators network and a global community of artists dedicated to creative excellence built by artists, for artists And I'm sure in the description on Google, it's a community to discover, discuss, publish and share and promote the things you're passionate about.

Neil:

Yeah, well, i say it was originally a bit of a rival to Facebook, but it's like it's difficult for any social media, isn't it? Because you've got to have a lot of people join it very quickly and they've got to stay. But the problem is that these other social media that we use regularly ie Instagram, facebook, twitter they're so ingrained now in people's psyche, so part of people's day, their routine. Yeah, that, how do you possibly, like, force your way in? That's why. So talk, you could have a brilliant idea, but chances are it's not going to last, because people might think, oh the novelty, i'm going to go on to there tomorrow or the day after, and they do for two or three days. But they it's like, yeah, people start dropping off and I'm going to go to what I know.

Neil:

It's a shame in a way, because I think the social media that we have could definitely be improved upon. But how do you make people stick? And then the other one off sees Instagram, which I used to really like Instagram. I think that was really refreshing, especially to photographers, obviously, because it was very image based, especially, if you remember this again, helen, at the beginning Instagram, it was really frowned upon to actually post a professional photograph. It was designed that you could only post images from your phone with the intention being that you could only take a photograph.

Neil:

You take a photograph on your phone and post that, not post one of your professionally edited photographs, and I remember in the very early days when I started doing it, and while other people start to post their ie professional big camera photographs, there's quite a lot of back life between it. Oh no, that's not what this is about, and things like that. It's very strange. Again, looking back, Yeah, it's interesting.

Helen:

I'm just looking back through because I would have joined Instagram, i think fairly sort of you know quickly when Instagram launched. I am literally the worst person to have on this podcast because my own personal, like Instagram account in all of these years it's been going. I've made a grand total of 42 posts and there's probably about 30 of them which are my dogs that have both now died. So, yeah, i literally just shared some photos of my dogs and that is all that's on there. So in all those years, yeah, 42 posts, that's all I've done on my personal one.

Neil:

Yeah, i had a personal one. I'm just looking for it Now. yeah, i can't even log into it anymore. It's called Neil Redfern Picks and I made six posts. Oh, it's ironic. Actually, we're talking about social media but I don't like to share. I'm just quite a private person.

Neil:

I don't like to share anything that's actually personal or too personal on social media, so my Instagram is all business related. My Facebook is basically business related as well. I mainly use Facebook now for groups. I'm not really a big fan of feeds and stuff like that. I do love the groups, you know. I think that's brilliant, but yeah, i've never not really a big one for social media as such.

Helen:

No, i don't. There was a time, i think, i went through a phase where I would share sort of things about my life. It was kind of interesting because when I was back as a high school teacher you had to be so careful what you put online You were seen as deemed to be like a pillar of the community and you had to be like this perfect person who was their moulding mind and chipping lies.

Neil:

But you obviously were, though You wouldn't have had anything to worry about?

Helen:

I'm sure No, when it wasn't that I was going out getting drunk on the weekends doing the splits on the dance floor doing shots and you know, just being general Helen. So, yeah, my personality very much had to be reined in. For those times I couldn't use social media as a genuine outlet for like who I was. So when I left teaching it was suddenly like I'm my own boss, you could go wild I could go wild.

Helen:

And I do remember there was one particular post that I put on, maybe like six months or so after I left and it felt really naughty at the time I was moving house and I threw my back out and it was really, really bad. And I made a bit of a jokey post about, like, how old I was and I threw my back out and something about pissing my pants. It was so bad I did nearly piss my pants because I just didn't want to move to walk to the toilet, so I put that on there and it would have been within some sort of humour and lots of people will laugh in so much engagement. And then I did have a message from an ex-teacher friend No, she's still a teacher, it's not like it is an ex-friend, but a colleague an ex-colleague who went oh, you do realise you made that post public. And I was like, yes, i do, like I can swear. Now I can do what I want, i can post what I want. I don't now need to be this perfect image of myself.

Neil:

Were you told when you started your job as a teacher to not post on social media? or was it just something you thought, oh, I don't want the kids know about this.

Helen:

Oh, you could have proper disciplinary reasons. Oh, you actually could. Yeah, you didn't want to be putting anything on, like if you had off-set reports or like politics, like there's certain things that would just.

Neil:

I know that you just didn't want the kids seeing your drunk pictures.

Helen:

Oh, no, i'm sure I looked hot whilst I was drunk. It would be fine. But yeah, no, i think it was. Yeah, you had to still be very careful what you put out there. You know you are seen as this pillar of the community which I think, looking back, i'm like I was. You know, i was well behaved-ish and then I left teaching and went a bit wild. So I think when I left that I suddenly found my voice and I was like oh, i can post what I want or share what I want. I can be who I am authentically without needing to censor myself. So I went through a time where I did share a lot about my life and just about home and nights out, et cetera, because it felt liberating. But I think I've gone the total opposite way again now and I'm not posting very much about us. I know that you're also quite private, so I think my posting about life has sort of really reigned in now. However, i spend way too much time scrolling on social media.

Neil:

I think we all do. Well, that's the whole problem. Social media is designed to give you these little dopamine hits. Isn't it Like? if you get a put something out there, you get a lie. It does make you feel good. It's scary how it can become so addictive.

Helen:

Yeah, it's just mad. Now that I'm trying to go to the gym in the mornings, i don't really have time to do. You know, the general lie in the bed, waking up and scrolling. But if I do have a day where I'm not Which I confess I do.

Neil:

I do that.

Helen:

Yeah, but if I'm not going to the gym, i could quite easily, for at least an hour, just scroll And Facebook know exactly what I want. My feed is full of like dogs and cats and, well, just animals Parrots. They just tend to be like the dodo or different videos which generally tell a story of adoption or stray dogs, and they know exactly what I want.

Neil:

Well, yeah, it's like you've got to remember that the sole purpose of any social media is to keep you on there. And there are the top intelligent minds in the world working on the social media with the sole intention to increase retention. Their only job is to think right, we don't want you to lead this site, so they learn exactly what you like and they just feed it to you over and over and over again. A great example of that is YouTube. You know, at these days, you don't If you just go on to YouTube, i just open up YouTube by favor of all. I think it's a social media of a type. I've run it. I think it's probably one of the best social media because of all the different social medias.

Neil:

I think I get to know people better on YouTube. Obviously, i don't know them because you see it, especially long form content. If you watch like a vlogger, for example, you get to know them. Say, you're watching one 10 minute video of them a week. You get a far better feeling for who that person is than you would by seeing five reels. You know, that's just the way I see it anyway. But anyway, what I was gonna say is like, these days, if you open up YouTube because you're logged in. It knows your viewing habits so well that you don't need to search for anything. It will just deliver you a homepage full of videos. He's like oh, i watched that, oh, i watched that, then I watched that, then I watched that. That can be crazy. And again, the sole intention of YouTube is to keep you on there. That's how they make money, because they show you ads, and the longer you're on there, the more ads they can show you, which means that the more money that they get paid. So it's designed to get you addicted.

Helen:

Yeah, i will say out of all of them this yeah, i don't even start on TikTok as well.

Neil:

What about TikTok?

Helen:

Oh dear.

Neil:

Say, i've not really got into it that much yet.

Helen:

No, that was another one that I made an account and I've just not been on. Yeah, i don't get it And just I think it was just like. then your Facebook feed is flooded, especially during lockdown, and people doing TikTok dances. I'm like why on earth do I wanna see people just doing a shit dance, like I don't understand but I know it so much more now.

Neil:

Yeah, i've gotta say they've really moved on from there. Now They really have And again, i don't really use it just because you get to solve a well with all these different social media. I always think it's better to maybe focus on one or two of them from a business point of view, this is and put your efforts into those, rather than trying to spread yourself really thin and do something to all of them.

Helen:

Yeah, I think if I got into TikTok that would also be dangerous, because I'm sure TikTok would do them very quickly as well, just to show me videos of animals?

Neil:

Of course it would. Yeah, And I would lose even more hours of my day watching all the videos, And it's ironic isn't it that the longer you're on any of these social medias, the more they understand your viewing habits and the more they can then deliver you targeted content that they know will keep you on it for longer? So over time, it becomes harder and harder to close them.

Helen:

Yeah.

Helen:

I think at some point they were gonna need to maybe break TikTok not break it, but really sort of break the back and sort of get into it and learn a bit more about it. Because you know, when we set up flashmasses, we were sat with the agency. You know, we know how influential TikTok is And we were told at the time when he set up your social medias, you need a TikTok. And I just went, no, yeah, and it was like, oh, we'll add that to. You know, we'll get things running and then we'll get on TikTok. And I still just don't want to be on TikTok.

Neil:

So I thought what we could do in this episode is we'll design our perfect or a closer perfect social media. Maybe we'll include features that we don't like, features that we do like. We've also put this out to the flashmasses community and I've got some of the feedback here and some of the things that our members do and don't like, which I'll read out in a second. I came up with an idea first off, just to kick it off, which I actually thought was pretty decent. Let me actually, before we get into that, i think that we've almost had the perfect social media And I think that was Facebook pre it becoming really business orientated and becoming all about monetization.

Helen:

Yeah, it's crazy that sometimes you go onto Facebook and you could be scrolling in the first 10 posts and you don't even know them. They're just ads.

Neil:

Precisely that's what I mean. But before all that happened, Facebook was decent. You'd go on, you would just see posts from friends, and it just felt to be a bit more authentic. It felt like it was a social media rather than just a place that you'd go on and be bombarded, as you just said, with adverts, which is all it seems to be now. So it's really just taken the fun out of it, and I think I'm right in saying it. If you ask, say, a 20 year old what do you think of Facebook, they're just not bothered by it anymore?

Helen:

No, they're not. It's not cool. Yeah, exactly.

Neil:

But it did used to be cool, yeah, but that's why I think that I'm not saying the perfect social media, but I think a very, very good social media has already existed, but then it's just changed And I would say, like peak Facebook was decent, and also the same about Instagram Before Facebook took it over. That was good as well.

Helen:

Yeah, i think that I can solve this issue, i can close down this episode and we could be like, oh, we're back to happy days and socials and nice things. But I think really, if you wanted to make that social media good again, you just pay to be there, get rid of the ads and you have a membership.

Helen:

And people will kick off. They'll be like, oh, i don't want to pay. But if you could pay a subscription for a month, like lots of us have done, for Instagram now to be verified, set up your monthly thing with Facebook or We Metta to not see adverts and only see the posts and the information from the people you actually want to see them from. And, yeah, i think it would make things a lot better.

Neil:

I like the idea.

Helen:

Thank you. Yeah, it's good Nailed it.

Neil:

Yeah, exactly, we just a very quick one.

Neil:

See you next week, everyone You just mentioned there yeah, you just mentioned there, helen that we both are paid to be verified on Instagram. Yeah, i know there was a bit of contention in the industry again about whether we should pay for that, but I will just say I'm not a fan of Mr Zuckerberg at all, But Instagram is such a great tool for us as photographers to promote our work. Yes, it's not ideal. Yes, we know the reach is terrible compared to what it used to be and all that sort of stuff, although, having said that, i made a post this week that's performed better than any post I've done for weeks and weeks. But I still think that to get all that free, that marketing platform is so important to us as photographers for free, it's not that big a deal to spend 10 pound a month on being verified, plus knowing that you've also got then the backup of be able to speak to someone if anything goes wrong, as it did with you a few months ago.

Neil:

Yeah, yeah, that's just my little thing. I just. I know that people don't like spending money. I get that. But when people are happy to go out and spend God knows how much on a new camera, god knows how much on a new lens, but it's like I'm not paying 10 pound a month for the biggest marketing platform available to me for free. I just think, oh, come on.

Neil:

You know, fair's fair. Anyway, that's a bit of a different topic, but yeah, i like your idea. I think it's really good. Thank, you. My new social media was gonna be called Voices.

Helen:

Oh.

Neil:

And if Elon Musk wants to fight back, I think this is the way to go. So Voices is like Clubhouse, which I thought was good, Cause I thought the good thing about Clubhouse is you heard people's voices And I think that's just quite nice on a human level. You know, imagine putting a post out there and, rather than just seeing people saying like oh, well done, or whatever you know just text, you heard your friend's voices responding. I thought that's quite nice.

Helen:

I, yes, my question would be that, if you're putting out this post and it's voices, So I'll put a post out then.

Neil:

New podcast out today, all about social media. That's my post, that's text.

Helen:

But that's what I was gonna say. My initial concern was like well, how are people gonna know what you're posting about?

Neil:

Well, that could be text, but you could also like listen to it in the car. Hey, that was. I'm not gonna say it cause it's really annoying if everyone's iPhones are going crazy. Hey, s-i-r-i please update me on Voices. And then it'll say opening voices. And it'll say Helen says I just opened a new bottle of Prosecco. Neil says listen to this new podcast. And you'll say, oh, tell me more. And then you'll hear all the voices, responses, voices coming soon. Oh, there you go.

Helen:

I don't hate that.

Neil:

I'm also a massive listener of podcasts. I fall asleep every night listening to podcasts. I always have. I used to listen to radio stations when I was falling asleep and I'm talking when I was like seven, eight, nine And I always have throughout my entire life. So I like listening to voices. So he's trying to take elements of clubhouse and you laughing at me and put it into Facebook.

Helen:

I was like that's how I snag Neil. He fell in love cause I don't stop talking. Yeah, yeah, you believe that, Of course it was Well, i love talking, so yeah, that was my suggestion.

Neil:

The other thing that I would like to, just in general, I think I'm not sure how it integrates into voices, but I just want to bring back pokes, bring back poking.

Helen:

Hey.

Neil:

You look at me very weirdly.

Helen:

That sounds a bit rude, Mr Redford.

Neil:

Well, that's why pokes is good. Do you ever pokes?

Helen:

No.

Neil:

You never got poked. Somebody must have poked you.

Helen:

This is an intro. Shall we not go, Okay okay, but if you don't know what it was then.

Neil:

No, back in the day when Facebook was very well, obviously before you joined it. So I'm going to say again 2007, 2008. Please, i was still in high school. Well, i wouldn't have poked you, but you could. you could just poke someone, just poke.

Neil:

Yeah, it was just that you go to somebody's page wall whatever it was I can't remember what it was called And you just say, poke them. And you just poke them And that person will get a little notification saying Neil's poked you. No one knew what it really meant. It was just that. That was it.

Helen:

Well, just keep your poking bits to yourself, like is this like a weird first, like introduction to Tinder? Was it like 30? or We don't even talk about that.

Neil:

Yeah, never been on any of those. Is it social media? I don't know Not really, i guess Maybe that's for the, the premium version of the podcast behind the paywall. But yeah, poking was just. no one knew what it was, but that was what made it good.

Helen:

So could you like, was there it like there was nothing more to it There was updates. You just had a profile and people would poke you, yeah, exactly. Could you message each other then?

Neil:

I don't remember. I don't know if it was like direct messaging which brings us onto other things. I'm confused, so I've got. this isn't about voices, it's just things that I thought are good and bad. Bring back pokes. I'd also like to ban cryptic messages.

Helen:

Oh.

Neil:

Like, like. there's someone that you are friends with on Facebook we won't mention. We won't mention his person's name, but it's basically every day this person is posting very cryptic. Can you give us an example of what this person will post?

Helen:

I just can't believe that that happened today. Those people are there, should be there to support me, not getting my way, or something like that. And then, of course, it's the you're okay, hans, dm me. You all right, babe? Yeah, i'm fine, han, i'll send you a message. You're like, oh, stop attention seeking.

Neil:

The reason I want to ban it is because I want to be behind the. I want to know the answers.

Helen:

Yeah, to be fair, we do find it quite amusing.

Neil:

Yes, you can't take your eyes off it.

Helen:

No, i will give you an update Most days I want this person is doing, because that person does update Annoyingly you never get to know any of these answers. No.

Neil:

Yeah, it's like can't believe that person's betrayed me so much. We'll never get over it again. Oh, can't believe that's happened.

Helen:

We'll never get over it. What's happened to that? Oh babe, i'm telling you.

Neil:

And then you'll see people saying yeah, yeah, oh, you're okay, babe, dm me. Oh, it's annoying.

Helen:

It really, really is. yeah, But then we want to ban it, but it's such a good source of entertainment.

Neil:

It's frustrating entertainment. So, yeah, i would ban that personally, and I don't know how you ban it, but yeah, i sort that out.

Helen:

Okay.

Neil:

Yeah, oh, one thing I saw on threads and this was a post by Stephen Bartlett, who hosts the Diary of the CEO podcast, which, if you've not listened to that podcast, by the way, it is brilliant. It's one of the top podcasts in the world Diary of the CEO. And Stephen Bartlett, who hosts it, made this. I've not got it in front of me but basically said, oh, let me, actually let me open up threads and see if I can find it.

Helen:

I was going to say that at some point. So since joining thread I said I went in, i copied you So I put some photos on a post, introduced myself in a very negative way I think my exact words on my first thread post.

Neil:

It's gonna become historic there. I know 50 years time, so when?

Helen:

everyone scrolls back. Helen Williams' photography's first post was so excited to have joined, knowing I will very likely never post because I hate social media as it is. But the FOMO is a killer. Hello and most likely goodbye. Oh my God, and that was my post, and obviously that went down like a lead balloon. So I had a total of seven likes and two replies. So yeah, i don't think I'm smashing this threads thing, but have you opened it since you started it, cause I turned off all notifications.

Neil:

I have, but I must confess I've just opened it for the first time in two days already, So it's not caught my attention that much.

Helen:

Have you had any success or no? actually, you, you carry on. I don't know what success even is. I don't know either.

Neil:

I don't know, but what Stephen Bartlett said, and I thought this was really really good. Imagine if social media closed every day at 6pm like a shot. We would all be forced to meet up and speak to each other in real life, to be present with our families, to work out, to go outside, to read, to make art, music Ugh, never mind, Isn't that brilliant? I know I love that. I actually reposted that. I thought that is brilliant because I'm not a fan of social media Now, and I do, you know, without getting too deep about it, cause this is quite we're trying to make it quite a light hearted podcast, but, like, social media on the whole, I think, creates more societal problems than it's solved in a big way, in a massive way. You mean, yes, it is nice to sort of feel like you know what's going on in your friends' lives without need to speak to them, but that in itself is a problem.

Helen:

Yeah.

Neil:

And social media I will hold my hands was made me lazy in terms of being social with people in real life. Cause you get into, you find yourself in the trap of thinking, oh, i know what's going on with my friends, so you feel like you're speaking to them, but you're not. Yeah, and then you think, god, i wish I had someone. I saw that person. My God she is, but you feel like you're actually. It's up today, whereas if that, if social media didn't exist, you pick up the phone, you'd arrange to meet people. I feel my, i always consider myself very fortunate that when I was at university, i didn't have a phone for the first year, which is crazy when you think back and you've had to tell my entire Growing up and like teenage years I didn't own a phone.

Neil:

I got a phone when I was 20. So that meant if I was gonna, like, meet my friends, you'd say, like, especially in school, like you. You sort of say, oh, do you want to play football tonight? Yeah, i'll come round at six. So you'd leave school at half three, whatever, you'd meet someone at six o'clock at that particular place And if they weren't there, then you went home like you couldn't contact him And in a way I quite like it because it meant, yeah, it was forcing to be social and so that, whereas now it's just like, just feels a bit yucky and I feel for kids these days.

Helen:

Yeah, it's not a healthy thing to have and unfortunately, you know, the majority of the population is totally hooked. Yeah and there's someone who's like, oh, i generally like someone threads started. I was like no, i don't want it. Tick tock came in. I was like, nope, i don't want it. Apart from Facebook, really, i don't like social media, however, yeah well, i am hooked to Facebook. The others I just couldn't give.

Neil:

That's what Facebook was first. Yeah that's it, that's all I would say about that. But yeah, i just love Stephen Bartlett's idea of social media literally closing down. Obviously, we've got time zones and everything, but you could see it so that in your country It closed at say, let's say, seven o'clock and then it reopened again at seven o'clock the next morning. I thought such a good idea. Yeah.

Helen:

Can you imagine like there'd be so many extra babies born and people would be fitter? People would be back in the pubs. So the pubs are closing like whoo. It's just a healthy society.

Neil:

I do. Yeah, great idea, stephen. Anyway, have you got any suggestions yourself there, helen?

Helen:

The only notes that I made when I pondered this for the entire of 30 seconds before we started the podcast Is that I would really like to see the end of filters, and this is just gonna be me on my soapbox. Winging now just certain people who put up their selfies with their duck faces and their Immaculately smooth skin and and hair that's shinier and more Bold in color than in real life and you're like girl. You've never looked like that, like proper catfishing, like again though not reality, or true, or close to true.

Neil:

I don't think it's a coincidence either That I know I'm all about the members of our flashmasters community actually has had this happen to. I won't say who it is because it's not not fair, but I've had an experience in the past 12 months of a bride who has Not liked how she looks in her photographs, who said I really like the photographs, it's just a shame that I don't like how I look in many of them. So she's sort of like complimenting the photographs, saying it's not you, it's me, sort of thing. And I know Very recently I was speaking to one of our members who's had the exact same Experience. Now, i think that that is down to social media. Yeah, because people now and dare I say it is men and women, but I do feel as though It's unfortunately like the press reads on women now because of societal expectations to try and make sure that what they're putting out to the world is, i don't know, in inverted commas, like as close to perfect as possible. Yeah, so people don't ever see themselves as they actually look these days.

Helen:

No, and I will say just go back a few weeks.

Helen:

Yeah, just just. This is quite personal, though, like just your own sister's birthday a few weeks ago and she wasn't with family, she had to work away, etc. And I was thinking, oh, do you know what? I'll just be a bit of an idiot and I'll sing a happy birthday in Welsh, i'll record it on my phone and send it just to make it a smile and make it giggle. And then I turn my phone on and obviously I've switched from my Android phone now to my iPhone.

Helen:

I used to have like a little bit of a skin smoothing filter that automatically turned on. When you know, when your camera open and the Camera open with no filter, i was like, oh, hell, no, where have all these wrinkles come from? like I can't send her a video looking like this. If that got out to the world I'd be like, oh, my good lord. So it does feel that, even with our camera phones now, that whenever you open the camera, it's completely lying to you when people just don't have a clue how they really look, yeah, it's a great point, and that is again unhealthy for society.

Helen:

I reckon I'm gonna predict this soon. They'll be like floor length mirrors that will be like almost like TV screens and instead of like Reflecting back at you will be reflecting almost like an AI version of you, where they'll be pinching in your way. Yeah, who knows? and just lying, yeah.

Neil:

I can see that sort of thing coming in cameras as well in the future. Like, yeah, you would basically you look through your camera, you look through evf and you'll see like a preset which could have a filter already on it, one of the which could be like a skin smoothing thing. I mean, i hope it doesn't happen, but who knows?

Helen:

Yeah, people unfortunately people would love it. They say the camera adds 10 pounds. If they can now take that back off again, that would be incredible. So yeah, i said I wanted no filters, because it's just not real at all. I wanted also time limits per day. Now that I switch to iPhone and I get my weekly sort of like oh Screen time.

Helen:

Good Lord's like. I do know that the majority of time I spend on social media, apart from in the morning when I do my scrollings And look at all the dodo Videos of all like the rescue dogs, because they're just cute.

Neil:

Apart from that, I'm the Asher house, which is basically for those that aren't aware.

Helen:

Follow the Asher house basically, helen watches.

Neil:

It's a man. It's a man who rescues animals, which is brilliant if it are.

Helen:

Everyone should watch that.

Neil:

What that is lovely of him. He saves all these animals. He brings them back to his house.

Helen:

And he looks after them.

Neil:

Yes, there is a twist He's always topless, so I'm not sure if you're watching that for the animals.

Helen:

Oh, what a man.

Neil:

Well, i've got to say, when you talk about filters, i do have to admit I love snapchat. I'd I've never done a snapchat, whether I don't know. I use snapchat, but I love the filters. Yeah, if you know, if everybody's not on snapchat with I mean it's not like a boomer conversation, but I don't even know what, how you even use snapchat. I've never done anything with it Except for flicking through the various filters. Now, these are not filters like hell. I mean, some of them are where it's had skin smoothing, yeah, but a lot of them will, like, turn your head into a dog, into a lion, that sort of thing. It's really, really funny.

Neil:

Yeah they love it. Yeah Yeah, get cracks them up. So that that's quite nice. So I might integrate funny filters into mine. Oh no, i can't work with voices. No maybe voice filters. No, I want to be authentic.

Helen:

So, on voices, you can't have any photos. You could maybe talk like a robot, but it's on your voices. There's no, there's no photos.

Neil:

No, it's just voices, just conversations. Yeah.

Helen:

I'm almost buying into it, to be honest. Yeah, I hope there's like a big or Musk is and listening the steals.

Helen:

It like we've got time to set up a new social media anyway exactly Yeah and then, yeah, my other thing was no business or marketing account, which would kind of go against the fact that most of the start, at the time I use social media is actually for my business. So I would essentially be closing down by a main route of marketing. But yeah, from a personal point of view it is. You know, you do see an awful lot now of business Accounts.

Neil:

Yeah, you do.

Helen:

Yeah, and it just makes me spend money.

Neil:

So just before we finish the podcast, i've got one more point that I think is the biggest one. I wait, it's not the biggest one actually, but it's a. It's a big one. But I just wanted to read out some of the feedback we've had from members of the flashmash of community. So we put out basically this question What would, what features would you like to see in your perfect social media? And We've got some responses here. So Craig Edison says ban anonymous posts now, at first.

Neil:

I was like oh, i thought I actually said all that's controversial because I actually think that's quite a good thing, because whenever I've seen and I'm an admin in two groups and whenever I've Had these requests to accept anonymous posts, it's always been because people feel a little bit afraid to ask certain questions, because they're a bit worried because these are two Photography groups where they may come across as being a little bit silly. Obviously they don't, but I understand that, that you know. Sometimes people just think, oh, i don't want to be seen as asking this question, which I think the anonymous post feature is actually really good.

Neil:

Yeah, i do too but, to be fair, craig actually was referring to this. Well, he actually said they definitely have their space, but I see them too often and they really annoy me when they're throwing shade but won't back up their opinions. No, we should we ask somebody asking for help. I didn't, i've not seen happen, but yeah someone's using anonymous post to obviously remain anonymous, but yet slag somebody off or have a win. I do think that's wrong.

Helen:

So yeah, I get that.

Neil:

My real plan says features that don't make it so addictive. Algorithms that prioritize happy things and not stuff that makes you angry. No infinite scroll somehow allowing tone to come across in posts So interesting conversation can be had without folks misinterpreting text, which is yet voices would Exactly there you go, my Sound to voices. Anything that would foster more genuine and kind human interactions instead of tempting us to be our worst possible selves, of course. She then says of course I know he's all a pipe dream, because a social media platform that did this will quickly fold, but a girl can dream, yeah, i think I agree because, yeah, more is just pointing out.

Neil:

As we've discussed some of the negative features of social media, We said run a piece what they're. They're aiming to improve that all the time. They want to make it addictive, because that is obviously how they make money. Drew says have a song on it, like my space. I wasn't sure what he meant and I said what was this?

Helen:

He's went what I still don't know when you had you my space profile, i think you could add a song to your profile so when people like visited your profile, they would play a certain song.

Neil:

Oh, Okay, so what like your favorite song ever, or something. Yeah, what would yours be? Rihanna?

Helen:

Something Yeah.

Neil:

Maybe we'll bring it. Let's go back to that. Yeah, we'll think about that. We can say that in next week's podcast.

Helen:

What would be my MySpace song.

Neil:

Yeah, exactly, Yeah Again. Please let us know in the FlashMask community what your MySpace song is. If we've got that right, by the way, it might be complete.

Helen:

I'm glad you just made that up, but I think that's what it was.

Neil:

Martin Hobbie says ban all sponsored posts and business marketing. Keep social media social. And Martin Hobbie also says ban posts that start with please delete if not allowed. Ban posts that end with pick for attention Yeah, i get that. That's like when I don't know. There's plenty of people listening that have done this. When people say, do you prefer this picture in colour or black and white, which is normally the best proposal that they took all year? Yeah, and they just want to post it And basically, And there's no reason to otherwise.

Neil:

Yeah, it's like yeah, Which one do you prefer? Because I just want all this interaction on this. So, yeah, I will let that one go. Martin, I agree with you.

Helen:

It'll be funny just if we get some more colour or black and white posts down in the FlashMasters group to wind you up, i know.

Neil:

Ken says ban the at everyone tag, oh, which I actually agree with. I mean, we use it, we have to use it sometimes. The reason that we use it is because, like And we do use it sparingly, don't we? Very sparingly Only, really, when we're doing live streams, because we don't want people to miss out, but it is really annoying.

Helen:

However, like this would just be stopped if Facebook allowed us to actually The reach. The reach to When you're posting in your own group and people have chosen to be in that group.

Helen:

It's an absolute nightmare. We're trying to get messages out to the community And you know you're only showing it to a handful of people. So there's someone, obviously, who runs, you know, the FlashMasters community with you. For us it's absolutely essential just to try and get those things out. But, yeah, it is annoying that we need to do that in the first place. So, yeah, i think all of this will be solved if we all just gave a little bit of money every month So that they didn't then have to do so much in terms of trying to, you know, do sponsor posts etc.

Neil:

Yep, no, i agree. And Ellie, who is coming onto our live stream, as we mentioned earlier in the podcast in a couple of days time, says ban not my pictures now booking this style of photo sessions, oh, Which I actually didn't know this was a thing, but I think what Ellie is insinuating there is that some photographers will post all the photographers work or images that they have not taken as an example of what they want to shoot on future sessions that you can book them for.

Helen:

Yeah.

Neil:

Which is really, really bad. I mean, at least they're admitting it, to say, not my pictures. But I totally agree. You can't use all the photographers work to promote or market yourself. That's just wrong.

Helen:

And most people don't even read anyway. So even if you do say that most people will skip past and go oh my God, these are amazing and not read it properly anyway, Yeah, i agree.

Neil:

So thank you everyone for your feedback. The last one that I had for my personal social media but I'd like this to be implemented across all social media is I just think you should hide follow accounts, because the biggest problem with social media really is ego. Yeah, you know, and people just sort of think that person's doing well or they'll look up to a certain person purely because they've got a high number of followers or subscribers or anything, and it's all nonsense. So I just think it'd be cool if you had somebody's profile. You couldn't see anything of the ego metrics, you couldn't see how many followers they had. You don't need to see how many people they're following. It's just the name and you don't see anything else.

Neil:

I just think that that's just clean. It feels healthy. So, yeah, that's the other one I would also take away Interesting. But what's the point in seeing how many followers someone's got other than ego? We all have programmed to try and think success is more followers And it's not. It doesn't actually make any sense. I'm just not a fan of ego, of people creating posts for likes, for attention. So if you took away the reward of that ie more followers then I think social media may just get friendlier and more positive.

Helen:

That's a very interesting point.

Neil:

It got quite deep there, didn't it? Yeah, so All.

Helen:

I know if I could have a social media, if there was a social media.

Neil:

It would be voices. Okay, thank you very much.

Helen:

Oh yeah okay, it would just be voices.

Neil:

No, no, go on.

Helen:

The only thing I would know. No, it was just a stupid idea. I would just literally just have a social media just for dog accounts, so I could just follow what the favorite dogs are doing.

Neil:

No, you're right, It is a stupid idea, right? so thank you. Hope you've enjoyed this podcast Everyone. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to join us in the Flash Masters community beauty, you can do so at flashmasters. co. Thank you very much again for listening and we will see you next time.

Helen:

And don't forget to keep flashing.

Neil:

And sign up for voices coming soon.

People on this episode

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Helen Williams

Co-host
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Neil Redfern

Co-host