Flash Masters
Welcome to the Flash Masters Podcast! Flash Masters recognises and celebrates the best flash photography in the world through education, awards and community. Hosted by Helen Williams and Neil Redfern, we talk all things wedding photography - from the equipment we use to the funniest things which have happened to us whilst photographing weddings - and we have a lot of those stories! To join the community, please visit Flashmasters.co
Flash Masters
Get to know Neil Redfern: From his biggest wedding photography mistakes to YouTube success...
Join us as Neil and Helen catch up on their recent weddings, and find out why the British weather played a huge part on them....
Then, following on from last week's 'get to know Helen Williams' podcast, this time the roles are reversed and Helen quizzes Neil on all sorts of questions, from his favourite films and quotes all the way through to what job Neil would do on a wedding day if he couldn't be a photographer...
But that's not all. We also delve into the challenges of running a business, the significance of embracing our uniqueness, and overcoming imposter syndrome.
Tune in to discover a world of personal experiences, practical tips, and inspiring stories that will leave you enriched and inspired.
Join us in the Flash Masters community:
Website: https://flashmasters.co/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flashmasters/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@flash-masters
Flash Masters is hosted by:
Helen Williams: https://www.instagram.com/helenwilliamsphotography/
Neil Redfern: https://www.instagram.com/neilredfern/
Welcome to the Flashmasters podcast. Flashmasters recognises and celebrates the best flash photography in the world through education, awards and community. To find out more and to join the Flashmasters community, visit flashmastersco. Here are your hosts, Helen Williams and Neil Redfern.
Speaker 2:Hello there and welcome to episode 46 of the Flashmasters podcast with me, Helen Williams.
Speaker 3:And me, Neil Redfern.
Speaker 2:And in today's episode we are going to be delving deep into the mind of the man, the myth. Am I very up-biddle with building it up enough? I don't know what you're talking about, yet the man, the myth, the legend, Mr Neil Redfern.
Speaker 3:We're basically doing last week's episode, but about me this time. Yes, I didn't pick you up that much. I feel bad now.
Speaker 2:I really don't think I'm a legend, though.
Speaker 3:You are. Of course you are. You're Helen Williams. Yeah Off air you say I'm Helen F in Williams.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I don't actually believe it, it's a default. But yes, today I will be delving into your mind and asking you lots of questions. Some, hopefully, are light-hearted and more about you as a person, and some will be getting deep and serious.
Speaker 3:I'm the worst time for this. Well, because I am so tired. Today I literally feel like a zombie.
Speaker 2:Oh, you've led us into the first thing in terms of catching up, and what have you been up to, neil?
Speaker 3:Well, as well as all the usual things, I had a wedding yesterday which went well, because I've gone through all the images. I didn't know if it did on the day because it was so, so stressful and a very long day as well. But yeah, I started at 9am and left at midnight, so it was what that was? 15 hours and it did not stop raining the whole day.
Speaker 3:So, apart from like a 10 minutes bell. In the evening when we went outside for some portraits, again it was raining. Fair play to the bride and groom, abigail and Lewis, for braving the weather, but apart from that, every single photograph was taken indoors and it was also the biggest wedding I've ever shot at that venue. Thankfully it was a beautiful venue called Eve's Hall, which is actually where I hold my off-camera flash workshop, so I know it inside out, but I've never, ever, known it that busy and every spare inch of the venue was taken up with something wedding related. So the room that I think okay, even if it's raining, I've got that room over there, for example for indoor portraits or for the group photographs that had a mini golf putting greens all over it. There's another space, is that okay, I can use there? There was a candy floss machine there. It was. Basically. It was a big summer wedding designed to be outside.
Speaker 3:The plan was big, outside ceremony, lots of lawn games, so all that stuff happened inside and I've never known the wedding breakfast room as busy as it was. You could barely move in there. It was crazy and I say like 15 hours Plus. You know what it's like when you're thinking, okay, could at least sit down during the wedding breakfast, have a couple of hours just to relax a little bit. Then they had singing waiters so we sat down. Big thank you to my friend, tony Darcy, for helping me, because I needed the help yesterday. I think I was going to lose my mind at times. So yeah, during the bit where normally we sat down we weren't. So of that 15 hours, I think about 45 minutes was downtime.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it was intense. So now, an hour and a half drive back as well. I've got the stats here 17 and a half thousand steps and I burned seven and a half thousand calories.
Speaker 2:Wow yeah, so I'm just having a little whinge.
Speaker 3:But everything is one of those where you come away thinking that just hit me, I feel like I've gone 10 rounds with Tyson or something. But looking through the images, I think you know we did a really good job. It was a day full of amazing moments. But when it's all happening so quick and everything feels quite stressful because you can't go outside and a lot of the plans were to go outside I think you forget what you've even taken sometimes and it's only when you look back you think oh, actually we've got a lot of really good stuff.
Speaker 3:So yeah, we both very talented, so it's not a surprise oh it's very kind, but yes, 12 and a half thousand images, that is. That's a lot for me. I know you've hit that before, haven't you A few times, but I think that's the most I've ever shot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the wedding I'm currently editing, which has been a long process. Myself and Chris Wallace from Carpe Diem photography shot no fewer than 17,000 and 700. Photos Wow. Yeah, I've got it down. But then you know me, you always tell me off. I can never just do a big final call and then just edit the ones I want to live.
Speaker 3:Oh, I know, I don't know why you do. George was explaining what you do Left your own devices.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll first of all do you know the first call and then I'll do a second call and that usually you know I like to deliver about 700.
Speaker 3:How are you doing this, Cullen?
Speaker 2:In aftershoot now.
Speaker 3:Yes, but before that you were doing it in Lightroom, weren't you?
Speaker 2:Everything went into Lightroom. Yeah Well, I used to use photos Like it's 2012.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I used to use Photomechanic and then I don't really know why I stopped, but I did. But yeah, I am terrible. So, yeah, say, I take like 9,000 photos after two lots of culling that take forever. I'll usually get it about 1200. And what I should then do is go through a third and final time and get it to the 700 that I want, but sometimes I really just like to see them in Lightroom with my preset applied. I'm quite indecisive. So, yeah, I usually take about 1200 into Lightroom and from there I whittle it down whilst editing, which I so you're editing stuff that you then take it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it makes no sense.
Speaker 1:Oh well, Anyway, yeah.
Speaker 3:But before I actually leave, I want to ask you about your wedding that you had this weekend, but before I leave the one that I was talking about yesterday one thing I've got to say I've become, when it comes to portraits now, pretty addicted, and this is because I've been so inspired by the Flashbasket Ambassadors, the members and just all the work that we see between, especially if you've got a second shoot, like I had Tony helping me yesterday with taking like a composite images, where you're taking a photograph with the light source in I mean oftentimes for me now that's a mag box in the shot, because that gives you the nicest light and then asking the person holding the mag box to take themselves out of the scene, take another one and composite the two together.
Speaker 3:I am loving the results I'm getting from that. In fact, what I'll do is I'll post in the Flashmasters members group one of the images which I did at yesterday's wedding in the rain where we did that, and I'll post the images which make up the final shot. But I'm loving that technique now. So, yeah, thank you to everyone who has shown the behind the scenes of that style of off-camera flash portrait, because I'm loving it and I find it hard now to think of not doing that. I don't think I want to shoot wedding on my own again now because it will really hinder those sort of portraits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to agree, I too am absolutely obsessed and considering I've had a mag box 24 just sat in the back of my van and a white van driver, if you didn't know, always sat in the back of my van. I've used it on a couple of style shoots but I've never got it out of the wedding. And since we I think you were assisting me on a wedding a few weeks ago and we thought, well, let's just give it a go. And since then I too am hooked now and, yeah, definitely starting to use it now, which is nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the results are so effective, aren't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but just gathering dust. I just never really realised sort of the quality of light and how well it can be utilised on a wedding day. And when you've got you know the boom arms that we're using now for the dance floor when we put those on as well. Yeah, it was just I needed someone to really show the effectiveness and the results and really how to go about setting those up on wedding days. So, yeah, those live streams have massively influenced me too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I will share some of the images in the flash mask group where I've done this. Again, thank you to Tony for holding that for me. And we got soaked. The mag box, as soon as I got in last night had to take it back out of the bag because it was absolutely sopping wet. I thought it would have grown mold otherwise. But, yeah, it held up well in the rain. But we did need to use freezer bags. Oh, if you're going to do this stuff in the rain, remember your freezer bags to put over your speed lights everyone.
Speaker 3:Oh, and one other thing I want to say about yesterday's wedding. We had a corner that we managed to find in the venue where nobody was, which was not easy yesterday because I say it was rammed, but we had had all our bags and stuff in a corner. Then in the evening, photo booth guy arrived and he wanted to use a space where we were keeping our bags. So we just basically moved the bags and got chatting to the man who was pushing up the photo booth. Turns out he's actually a wedding photographer himself and he said oh, I have interest. What's your name? So I introduced myself. Turns out he listens to the podcast. He said no way Is it near, refinie, you run flashmasters. I said, yeah, you're all. I listen to podcast every week. I love this. So I thought, wow, that is a minute. It blew my mind, just someone that I hadn't met before, hadn't had the pleasure of meeting, and it was a flashmasters podcast listener.
Speaker 3:So I wanted to give him a shout out on today's episode, so hopefully you'll be listening to this. Jack Dilworth of Jack Dilworth Photography. Thank you so much. It was great to meet you and thank you for all your very kind words about the podcast. It was really, really nice to hear.
Speaker 2:Another opportunity or another time where you've been spotted Well it wasn't spotted.
Speaker 3:That's the whole thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we found that the people are listening to this podcast and we have no clue that they do it.
Speaker 3:Audio equivalent is of being cited. Yes, I don't know what that word would be. I don't know, I don't, I'm too tired. But yeah, either way, that's.
Speaker 2:Oh, that must have been super exciting.
Speaker 3:It was genuine. It was really, really nice, because I do sometimes know that people know who I am, maybe from YouTube, but not for the podcast. So I was like oh really really nice, Because I was saying to Jack actually he was asking about the podcast and things I was saying it's hard for us to really gauge who's listening. The stats that were available to us are virtually nil. It's not easy to feed back on a podcast either. You know. If it's a YouTube video, you just leave a comment. You can see who's leaving comments.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:On a podcast, who knows?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have no clue who's listening to this. Yeah, well, jack is. Yes, thank you, jack.
Speaker 3:Thank you again, jack. Yeah, j Dilworth photography on Instagram. So yeah, go and give him a follow.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's amazing. Oh, I'm gutted, I wasn't there for that.
Speaker 3:So anyway, before we move on to the questions, Helen, how was your wedding this weekend?
Speaker 2:Well, in the last week I've done three weddings, all of them very, very different. The first one I took you along, or we went to West Yorkshire to Wood Hall Hotel and Spa. That one was a fantastic day. Quite a big.
Speaker 1:A lot of victim of the weather again.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that was another day which, for me. My bride wanted everything outside. It was a full weekend wedding. They've brought you know what loads of their guests have travelled a really long way. They booked out the entire venue for the full weekend. They had welcome drinks. They should have had an outdoor cinema. They should have had pig racing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they put so much effort in that.
Speaker 2:They put so much in.
Speaker 3:Pig racing, by the way. Imagine that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for the welcome drinks on the Friday night which I went along to shoot as well. But yeah, the whole weekend was planned to be outdoors and it was one where it didn't stop raining all day again. So, yeah, that was really unfortunate. However, it didn't sort of dissuade the bride and groom or any of their guests at all and we had such a fantastic time. But, yeah, that was a really, really lovely time and it was fantastic as well covering that sort of night before element, because it really felt the one. I came back again the next day. I'd already had a couple of hours of the guests and that was a really nice relaxed atmosphere, free bar, everyone was having a fab time and I knew when I arrived then on the wedding day I'd already had that time to not only feel familiar with the couple, but with their family and friends as well.
Speaker 2:So that was really good. So, yeah, it's not really a done thing in the UK to sort of have sort of I suppose it's called like a rehearsal dinner, I think in the US, but we don't really do that in the UK. But I really enjoyed that and I think it really helped me quickly get into the day. Then on the wedding day itself so yeah, I had that one Then.
Speaker 3:Just say about that. Another, though, victim of the British weather, jumping saying about how my wedding yesterday should have been outside but it did not stop raining, literally from the moment I woke up to midnight. It never stopped raining, even like when I got back what halfway in the morning it was still throwing it down. And unfortunately, your wedding last week again victim of the weather this is, I think sometimes people don't really understand maybe you're listening in warmer climbs how difficult it can be for us, because nothing's certain, is it? And the whole plans of these weddings both should have been outdoor ceremonies just thrown into disarray.
Speaker 2:And it's such a shame. It really is because, yeah, that wedding which I should have had, obviously there should have been plenty of room outdoors, but instead all of the guests were squeezed into quite a small space. Everybody was using their fans because it was so warm in there. Not because the weather was warm, but just because everything was so cramped, unfortunately.
Speaker 3:And it's July. Yeah, it's our summer time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, typical, absolutely typical. But yeah, thankfully I think it's the same yesterday for your couple. They all took it in this ride and still have brilliant days.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yes, it was amazing, as I say, like they're the best I ever, and it was full of moments just as yours was. But I think it, you know, slightly seriously and we're going to be biased, obviously, but it does show the importance of needing to know your lighting.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely Can you.
Speaker 3:imagine doing one of these weddings where you, if you didn't have speed lights or video lights, what would you do? Yeah, I was I do wonder what natural light photographers do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even know how I could turn up to weddings, not knowing flash. I panic knowing what I already know wanted to do a good job, but to think that you know when things go wrong which it often does in the UK because of weather and where you thought everything was going to be outside, and then suddenly you know you have things happening in dark corridors and just not what you'd planned for Exactly.
Speaker 3:I mean-.
Speaker 2:Every image on that Friday night which should have been outdoors and then outdoor cinema and pig racing, every single image. I needed to use flash because they were in an oak-paneled bar and hallways with no lights or no windows.
Speaker 3:And it's not just that, is it? Even a lot of these venues these days are lit with LED lights.
Speaker 1:Yeah so it's flickering.
Speaker 3:So you've also then got the issue of flicker. You've got to shoot really slow shutter speeds, even if you want to use natural light, which would look awful anyway. So, yeah, I'm just going through the day Like I know it's insane for your wedding, but for me yesterday flashed. I don't like to use it during the ceremony, but certainly for group photographs, for speeches, for dancing with your wedding. You had fireworks. Yeah, flash for that. How you would cope without being like so I do not know.
Speaker 2:No, I don't. Yeah, we need to get some we need to tell the world, although I think people who are very much I think people will know yeah, yeah, it is funny. Yeah. No, I won't go into dissing natural light photographers.
Speaker 3:No but, I, would like to know how many people who are natural light photographers are natural light because they just don't know how to use off-camera flash.
Speaker 3:Oh, 100% Like many that will be a huge percentage, and if you are one of those people, by the way, and you're a little bit, you know, scared of flash. Please, please, consider joining Flashmasters, because there is lots of content available for you. We won't go into all the details now, but which will help you on the road to using speed light, because, certainly, if you're in the UK yes, we do get nice weather, weddings, and you know wedding I remember earlier this year Mine, it was so hot one of my speed lights actually stopped working. It was baking. But we are always at the risk of bad weather, always.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we really are, and that's one thing that's been really nice. I know from doing sort of the surveys that we've been running with our Flashmasters members. We have members who have been shooting weddings for 20 years and we have members who are literally just starting, or even just hobbyists, but want to learn how to use Flash, and it's really fantastic to get feedback from so many different members of the community with regards to how they're progressing and learning, and I have to say I have learned so much myself since we started Flashmasters. The amount of knowledge from members inside of the group and what we're getting from our ambassadors in live streams is absolutely phenomenal, and I know obviously both of us are testament to how much we've learned too. So, yeah, there's definitely something for everyone. Yes, right then, neil Shall we go through some Flashmasters news.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we've got to ask you to do this because I don't know what the news is this week.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, for those of you who are Flashmasters members and are listening, the deadline for Collection 4 of this year is coming up on Monday, the 31st of June, which is Monday next week. If you're listening, on the day this comes out, it's a deadline, don't forget. Is UK time, not US time or anywhere else is BST British summertime. So we close entries at 11.59pm. For us, which is 3.59pm EDT and 12.59 PDT. So don't forget that deadline is on the website. It's on the top of the Flashmasters members group. So there should be lots of different ways for you to remind yourselves of those deadlines. And, of course, I'll nag and tell you all in the group to make sure you submit. So please make sure you submit. And then, finally, just so you know, that the next live stream coming up is on the 9th of August and that's going to be a member's critique stream with Ben Connolly. So we will be giving all of our members the opportunity to submit some images for critiquing by Ben.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's going to be amazing. Can't wait for that. Ben is brilliant and critiques are so useful. We spoke about it many times. We won't go into it again now, but such a useful thing to watch. And even if it's not, your image is being critiqued, you can still learn so so much, just as much, watching other people get their work critiques. So, yeah, these are going to be invaluable sessions.
Speaker 2:I remember the last one we did with Jesse Amoeira, which I believe is in the Flashmasters members zone as well for members to watch back and everybody who was there, even if their own images weren't coming up. They kind of felt they were playing like Critique Bingo.
Speaker 1:How, when an image came up.
Speaker 2:you just wanted to see if what you spied was what Jesse Amoeira spied to, and yeah, it's a fantastic learning opportunity, like I said, whether it's for your image or someone else's. So, hopefully that will be well. I know it'll be a great stream and hopefully lots of our members will join us live for it. So I think that will round us up on our Flashmasters News of the Week. So it's time to delve in deep into the mind of Mr. Neil Redfern. I'm going to start easy for you. How does that sound?
Speaker 3:Are you doing it the same way as last time, where we asked some general questions and wedding ones? Yeah Cool, that was good then.
Speaker 2:So first of all, Mr Redfern, what is your favorite film?
Speaker 3:I'm not really into films that much. In fact, I can't even remember the last film that I watched. No, and you're the same, aren't you Really?
Speaker 2:I remember I don't know. We sat down and watched it because you like scary films and I hate them. Oh, is it paranormal activity? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I do actually like yeah, I do like scary films, but I hate them. Yeah, I'm not really a film buff at all. You answered this very honestly last week in terms of it wasn't like the most acclaimed film ever.
Speaker 1:No, if that was your dirty dancing, or something?
Speaker 3:Dirty dancing in the Goonies. So I'm just going to choose films that I know I could watch over and over again. Yes, now there are films like again I mentioned last week, like if I was to say what is that the best film ever? Probably thinking along the lines of the Godfather, or for me, or Fight Club, you know, really like you watched that, you think that's so deep and really like multi-layered certainly Fight Club anyway, and I think it's just amazing. But would I watch it over and over again? No, I've chose films that I definitely have watched a number of times.
Speaker 2:High school musical.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've actually chose three, so I'm cheating? No, I've never seen that. I'm one of those people and somebody says have you seen this? Chance is that I've not seen it.
Speaker 2:I'm the same, so yeah.
Speaker 3:So I've chose the Social Network, which is a film about Facebook being started. I really like it. I just like the story about somebody starting something from nothing. It's become really successful, and I have watched that a lot of times. I also really like the music to that as well. But Talk of Music. Probably. If I was going to choose just one, it would probably be Jurassic Park.
Speaker 2:I knew that one yeah, because the music is sublime.
Speaker 3:Like I could listen to the theme tune and that, well, the whole album of Jurassic Park over and over again. John Williams is a genius and I think that Jurassic Park is his best work and I just love like the whole. I don't know escapism of it and I prefer the first half, where everything's going well and like the arrival to the island and it's just amazing. And when they first see I think it's the Diplodocus, when they first see them, it's like, and then the music kicks in. It's like that is amazing.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, if I was going to choose one, it would be Jurassic Park. I'm not that into it when it all goes wrong, because then it turns into a bit of like a drama type, horror type thing. But I just love the beginning bit.
Speaker 2:I just remember being terrified watching that as a child. I've not watched it again since.
Speaker 3:That just shows our age difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean, yeah, it's all in the cinema and I remember the bit where the dinosaur chasing the kids around the kitchen area or something?
Speaker 1:Yes, Blossom Raptor.
Speaker 2:Oh my good Lord, yeah, that absolutely terrified me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, big shout out to ET as well for that sort of Big shout out to ET. What's ET short for? Extra-surresting no, it's because it's got little legs. What, what's ET short for? He's got little legs, doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:But I love the theme tune to that as well. Again, spielberg and John Williams is just like a match made in heaven and I'll put, if I choose, the film like a guilty pleasure film that I could just watch over and over. And I have, and I more. If I watch it now I would literally be laughing out loud. It's Borat. So not not again. Very like, not a kind of claim film, put it that way.
Speaker 2:But yeah, exactly, yeah, I love that film too. I haven't watched it that many times, but yeah, I did enjoy that Brilliant. So you asked me this and I know that this is something back in the day when we first started courting. I do remember you asking me this question as well. But yeah, here we are back to you. I'll say that what would be your death row meal?
Speaker 3:It's easy for me, but there's two easy decisions and one very, very difficult one. Oh so my starter easily stuck pancakes with hoity and sauce. I think hoity and sauce is probably the best taste known to man. Oh yeah, this is where the difficulty comes, because it's going to be curry or ribs.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:So I'm going to go probably for ribs and dessert Jameroli Poli.
Speaker 2:But jameroli poli oh this is.
Speaker 3:are you serious? It's so underappreciated. Without a doubt, the only downside of jameroli poli is it's really calorific, like really bad. I remember I could just eat it for tea, but I remember once buying it and thinking, oh my, look at the label on that, everything in red.
Speaker 2:Okay, jameroli poli.
Speaker 3:Oh, all day long yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't like jameroli poli.
Speaker 3:Well, you need to get on board. It's amazing Like school dinners.
Speaker 2:I didn't like school dinners either. I think that's why I don't like it, though, because the dinner ladies maybe have.
Speaker 3:Did you have school dinners or did you have Pat lunch?
Speaker 2:I have both, but I stopped having school dinners. I think it was after the dinner ladies forced me to eat jameroli, poli and custard.
Speaker 3:And I said that I didn't like custard. In Manchester, jameroli poli was good.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, interesting. Thank you very much. Oh, one other thing what is your side to go with the ribs? Very important.
Speaker 3:I think just chips. In my opinion, to be fair, I could just eat ribs. I don't really need a side.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I like it.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something we're going to lead to. Travel now, possibly, and what is the favourite place you've ever been to?
Speaker 3:I've been very, very lucky that I've been to a lot of really amazing places. I mean, there's lots of places I could say, but I'm going to choose Costa Rica Because Costa Rica is just. When it comes to holidays and visiting places, I much prefer natural places than I do sort of man-made places. So I've not been to, to say, New York, I'd love to go, but it doesn't really have that pull for me. Same with Las Vegas I'm sure it's incredible, but it's just it's man-made. Again, it's like you know Dubai. I'm sure it's like, wow, look how tall that is, but it doesn't do it for me. I'd much rather go and see, like you know, the great waterfalls or go to the place that I've not been to, like Canada, for example, on New Zealand, just because I'm sure it's so stunning the landscapes there. And Costa Rica is like that, but it's just a haven for wildlife.
Speaker 3:Remember going there on like a tour and just stopping off at a cafe and there was a tree at the side full of iguanas, saw a sloth there, saw tarantulas living in trees, went to a beach where monkeys were literally running around on the beach. It just crazy Stopped at another place, another cafe near a bridge, went to look over the bridge, there must be 50 alligators I don't know if it's alligators or crocodiles just there on the river, Just sat there chilling. And Costa Rica is tiny as well and it's got a micro climate, so you can be up in the mountains and it's quite cold. You're wearing a coat in the rainforest, within an hour and a half You're on a beach and it could be 35 degrees. It's an amazing place. I mean stunningly beautiful, but for wildlife it's just awe inspiring. So yeah, Costa Rica for me Amazing sold.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fantastic, I really like that one. Okay, so next, I feel like I'm just running through these, but I think you've heard some of these because you asked me. So next do you believe in ghosts?
Speaker 3:No, no, I don't, but I do believe in something. So I don't, even though I love listening to I actually fall asleep listening to ghost story podcasts and I love watching on YouTube people who do ghost explorations and investigations and stuff like that but no, I think it's a lot of old bunkum. But I do really like watching it and listening to it, but I just don't believe it. It's a bit like you look at me really puzzled, yeah, but it's a bit like why do people watch horror films? But they know that it's a film. Do you want me to say entertainment?
Speaker 3:I certainly do not think of that traditional lady in a white dress just hovering doesn't exist. But I do think, and I think it's very short sighted to believe that there is nothing after death. I think there's so much that we don't know about our own brains and how our brains work. I think there are certain things that you can take, shall we say oh, that will open up different parts of the brains and people can have different experiences and start to see things in a different way, and things like that. And I think it's really I say short sighted to think we know all we're is to know already. We certainly don't, but I don't believe in the traditional ghost. I do believe in energy and things that we don't understand.
Speaker 2:Okay, interesting, I like it. So now I'm going to go and veer away from the questions that you asked me this week.
Speaker 3:I'll ask you yeah, peek behind the curtain then those are questions that I knew about in advance. I don't know these ones.
Speaker 2:No, you don't know any more that's coming in. So first of all, the big question now only from me who is your biggest celebrity crush?
Speaker 3:Oh, do you know what I am rubbish at this? Have I ever mentioned anyone to you? Yes, oh, can you maybe remind me?
Speaker 2:Honestly, she's also Welsh.
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, yes, Stacey from Gavin and Stacey, yeah, oh, and I've never watched Game of Thrones, but the Lady and that.
Speaker 2:Is it Amelia Clark?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Emily Clark, amelia Clark. I've never watched it, yes.
Speaker 3:And the reason I liked her is because I saw her on a YouTube clip I think it was a Jonathan Ross thing and she's just so laughy and funny. You just think, oh, she's so lovely. Obviously she's, you know, quite photogenic as well.
Speaker 1:That helps.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, I thought she was really nice. Yeah, I also used to like Katie Melior as well, because I remember watching her on a YouTube clip singing 9 million bicycles in New York, beijing, 9 million bicycles anyway. But watching her and being like, wow, does she have big boobs? No, no, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I've got it in my head that she had to. No, Honestly.
Speaker 3:I'm not just saying this to be nice or to sound like all PC and everything, but I'm much more attracted to personality and stuff like that than a model, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Oh, no wonder I dabbed you, but honestly don't be dabbed.
Speaker 3:But honestly you know, like it's not even the character really of Stacey in Gavin and Stacey. But if you watch her again, there was an interview that she did with Rob Briden to put in Rob Briden, what is her name?
Speaker 2:Joanna Page. Joanna or Joanna Page.
Speaker 3:Yeah, joanna, or Joanne Page Rob Briden. She did an interview with him in lockdown and she's just adorable. Yeah, like me, exactly, yeah. So yeah good yeah, those were the ones.
Speaker 2:I'm like your wishes, like when you ask wish yeah. I'm like the wish version of Joanna.
Speaker 1:Page.
Speaker 2:Anyway, moving on, I'm not sure if you're going to answer this question. You might delete it out. So yeah, I was wondering, if you did get married again, who would you book to photograph it?
Speaker 3:Oh, that is really difficult. That is really really difficult. You always want bits of everyone, don't you? That's the problem. I find it hard to sway away from two man.
Speaker 2:Good answer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, do you know what? I will say this in complete honesty. Five years ago it would have been two man. Ended discussion, move on to the next question. But I feel as though I don't know if it's because I've just been exposed to many more photographers now, or the bar is rather the gap is closing. Yeah, but there are so many photographers. I'd be like, yeah, brilliant, I would have no hesitation choosing those. So it's not an easy one at all. I could probably name 10, and I'd be happy with 10. Yeah, genuinely. I'm not going to mention the various different within our ambassadors, but there are a good number of our ambassadors. I'd be like amazing, definitely them, like easily Say. The question used to be more obvious to me, I think, but now it's very, very difficult Because I'm just looking at so many photographers' work and being genuinely awestruck by how talented they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are definitely exposed to so much talent within the group, so I think you navigated that quite well. I thought you'd be like I'm not answering that.
Speaker 3:No, it's been two man since, I would say, 2016, when I first saw them, or 2015, even when I first saw them at nine dots, but I do feel now that there are so many other photographers who are maybe not at that level, but are very, very close and maybe excel in other areas as well, maybe beyond two man in certain things. So, yeah, it's not easy at all.
Speaker 2:Brilliant. Well, thank you for sharing that so openly. I'm wondering now, totally non-meding related or photography related, but do you have a favorite quote?
Speaker 3:Yes, there's going to be gaps in his podcast. So when you listen to this, if you think, oh, I've answered it really quickly, just know that it is edited. Ok, if I'm going to choose one quote yes, I do I'll say it's a quote. It's actually lyrics. There's lots of song lyrics which mean a lot and which I think are perfect, but the best one for me, and this is I'm going to have a tattoo. This would probably be my tattoo, and it's the last line of the last song of the last Beatles album. If you forget, Her Majesty, forget that. So it's the Beatles and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make, which you think he's just amazing, and the way for that to close out the Beatles careers as well. I think he's so perfect.
Speaker 2:Oh, I really like that. You've not heard that before.
Speaker 3:And in the end. I thought you might recognise it from that.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the love you take is equal to the love you make. The Beatles Geniuses Deep Shane, this one, liverpool.
Speaker 2:Mr Redford, controversial On that topic of controversy, that's the one.
Speaker 3:Controversy Controversy yes.
Speaker 2:Controversy. Controversy Is.
Speaker 3:It is that controversial saying the Beatles?
Speaker 2:Well no, I just looked like saying there from Liverpool. I thought that was a bit cheeky.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, it's in the contract. If you're from Manchester, we don't like Liverpool and they don't like us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway, we're going to carry on with you, maybe pushing buttons and upsetting people.
Speaker 3:Go.
Speaker 2:So you were asked this previously on another podcast and I know when you came back, this was the one thing you remembered. Oh, yeah, and then the said said people who ran said podcast didn't include it because they didn't want to cause trouble.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I asked you this question last time, didn't actually?
Speaker 2:Did you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, yes, you did Is this the what job would you have? What wedding related job would you have that wasn't videography or photography?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just going to say imagine like you couldn't use cameras anymore, like you couldn't be a photographer anymore, but you had to work in the wedding industry. What would you do?
Speaker 3:So on that podcast, it did take me a while to think. It's not actually easy, but I actually came up with again. Obviously I love we've met, we've had a Toastmaster on this podcast, stefan, and he is genuinely good. Let's just put out there. But this is not referring to Stefan. This will be referring to the majority of other Toastmasters. I would choose to be a Toastmaster because many of them, let's be honest, turn up about three hours or two hours before the ceremony. They basically go round putting the flowers on and then that's it and they have a meal and they go home. So I'd be that, basically, what four or five hours work, you're getting fed, wandering around, chatting to people, the venue, and then that's it you done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, toastmaster, easy, easy money. Yeah, keep looking busy, not.
Speaker 3:Stefan, not Stefan. He does work Again. Stefan, the tall Toastmaster, is immune to this chat because he is genuinely brilliant. But let's be honest the majority are not like Stefan. So I don't want to be like Stefan. I don't want to work, I just want to be in the background just with my red jacket on, just eating canapes.
Speaker 2:Brilliant. It doesn't sound a bad job at all. That's it. Yeah, maybe I should add that onto my list as well, because I'm definitely good at shouting and telling people what to do, but they don't do that either.
Speaker 3:That's the whole point of why I want to be a Toastmaster. Yeah, you're right Again.
Speaker 3:Stefan does, but I've literally had Toastmasters the only time. I think right, you can actually help me here which is group photographs, especially if it's a wet weather wedding again that we spoke about earlier where it's like everyone's indoors but they're in different rooms and I'm doing group shots in one particular room. You can really help me here. Ex Toastmaster. Here's a list. Can you try and get these people ready for the next one? And that's when they seem to go missing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they just disappear, just not there. They're too busy. He's stood in the kitchen looking at their timer, basically counting down so they can run back out and go. You've got five minutes. And then there's just here again.
Speaker 3:And what I wouldn't do is stand behind the top table looking bored during the speeches.
Speaker 2:Oh, anyway, there's some well controversy, that's how.
Speaker 1:I'm going with it.
Speaker 2:Controversy. So Neil's going to be a Toastmaster, okay. So next question. I think this is going to be a deep one, something you might have to think about. But what do you think is your best quality?
Speaker 3:Oh, in terms of weddings.
Speaker 2:In terms of you as a person. The success. How did you get here? What, yeah? What's? What's the secret source? What's your best quality?
Speaker 3:Oh, it's hard to have answers because you sound like you're kissing your own backside. I think if you answer it wherever, you say to this there you go.
Speaker 2:There's almost your answer within that. I know you're someone who hates receiving compliments. Is that part of it?
Speaker 3:I don't know, oh, I don't. I find it really difficult to whatever. That means really difficult to answer, and it's not because I'm thinking, oh, like I can't think of anything, I just think. I just feel like, whatever you say, you sound like a f***, basically.
Speaker 2:So we're refusing to answer this question.
Speaker 3:No, no, I think. I think I genuinely get enjoyment from helping people, and oftentimes we'll prefer that, prefer to help them to do something. How do you word this? It's a bit like on Christmas day, you know, when you're a kid, you just you want presents.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I think, I think most adults, most nice people, will get to a point in life where you prefer to give the present. See the reaction. I think it's. It's that, oh, I think it's that. But like outside of Christmas presents, basically like I get a real buzz from knowing that I've helped someone and made them feel good about themselves. So probably that.
Speaker 2:I love that about you.
Speaker 3:I would also agree that that is a huge strength.
Speaker 2:But I think, in terms of you being an educator doing YouTube, I know that there's plenty of people out there who might be super talented but won't really want to teach or give away what they know for fear that those people that they're helping are going to somehow, like take them out of business. Or, you know, you're someone who genuinely wants to help, who will offer so much knowledge for free, like your YouTube channel, etc. Yeah, you're just a genuinely sort of very giving and generous person.
Speaker 3:Well, again, this is, was it? Because we're a bit deep now and again I don't really like saying anything like this, because I say it does. It does not feel natural to talk about things like this, I would say. But it goes back to that Beatles lyric because the love you take is equal to the love you make. The more good you put out into the universe, the more should come back at you. And I really believe that I'm a massive believer in treat people how you want to be treated yourself, and it really annoys when people don't do that.
Speaker 3:As we all know, it costs nothing to be kind.
Speaker 3:And actually at yesterday's wedding I was talking to the videographers and they're relatively new to the industry and they were talking about how much inspiration they take from a friend of mine, adam Wing, a really, really talented videographer based not too far from here, and they were saying that when they first started they reached out to Adam and said, out of interest, could you maybe send us a full feature length film or what it is you provide your couple, so we can see what the market expectation is, and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:And they said he replied, said yeah, here you go and just send them everything for no reason other than to be kind, and they then sat there yesterday's wedding talking about how much they look up to Adam, how much he inspires them, and Can you imagine if you would have said no, like they would not be talking about him in those terms? But Adam took the time to be really kind, really helpful, and it's now you know the university's paying him back because there's good vibes being spoken about Adam and he deserves that because he is so, so helpful and that's what I would like people to talk about me in those sort of terms. So yeah, so whatever that is, I would say oh, you're just an all-round good guy.
Speaker 2:No, I don't know about that, I'd love to say somewhere behind the scenes he's a bellend, but you're really not.
Speaker 3:No, I can't be. I have a lot, you know, I have lots of like stress. I get very frustrated easily and stuff like that. So, yeah, no, you are, you are still an incredibly generous, kind, thoughtful person.
Speaker 1:Come on, okay, next question.
Speaker 2:Oh bless you. Yeah, I do enjoy making you squirm. I don't think there's any better way to make me all squirm than to say something nice about him. So yeah, if you ever meet him, just make sure that you give him all the compliments, and he'll literally want to crawl into a cave and hide.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I've got a couple of really difficult ones now, or could be difficult ones for you, quite deep. Obviously, you have a fantastic business. There's, you know, so many different elements to your business as well, instead of just, you know, taking wedding photographs. But what I'd like to know, when I have no clue what your answer is going to be to this, is what would you say has been the biggest mistake or cock up that you've made in business. And I don't mind if this is like something from a from a high level sort of perspective, or whether there's one particular moment or job. Then you'd say it was like your biggest mistake.
Speaker 3:Thankfully, nothing jumps out, which is a good thing. I would like to think because, yeah, if you made a really big error you're not deleted any full wedding galleries and no, no, I've lived on the edge.
Speaker 3:I've mentioned before about how I used to go to weddings. When I first started I mean, I'm talking about the first year or two I used to take a little portable card reader, like a little portable hard drive that you could download images from a memory card onto and you could back at your images on site, as it were, and I used to do that. That sounds sensible, but I used to do that at a wedding, take the card back out and then format that camera. So my only copy of the images was on that portable hard drive, which is crazy stupid. But yeah. So yeah, I didn't make a mistake because I got away with it. But I would have done a lot of things that could have ended up catastrophic. But yeah, I've always been very lucky. Like I started shooting raw the day before my first wedding, for example. If I didn't do that, because I'd read it in a magazine that raw was good, I wasn't even sure raw even was. But if I didn't do that, I wouldn't have shot a second wedding. So, yeah, I've made mistakes, but nothing catastrophic. But I guess it would just be.
Speaker 3:I don't think I'm a good business person. Do you know what I mean. I think I've got, I've done quite well for myself. But I'm going back to a little bit about, I suppose, about you know, trying to wanting to help people and that being like the primary motivator means that I'm not very good with building a business. I would say so. It's not a mistake. But I think if I had like a manager who could maybe do some of the thing you know I don't like to talk about money, for example. I think maybe it's a British trait, I think it might be similar.
Speaker 3:You know it's like, if you try to, if you've got an inquiry mission, I'm not very good at closing that deal. If you like, like, I would say, I'll take your time, you know, don't tell you know. And you also like, don't want to be there when they're talking about that. If you were a bit better at business or sales, you close it there and then I'm rubbish at that. So I'm not a good business person. So I would say it's not although it's not a mistake that I think I could probably be financially better off if I had someone managing me a bit better.
Speaker 2:Oh, very interesting. Yeah, I like that. And then, on the flip side I know you're not expecting either of these questions would be what for you, do you think was the biggest sort of action or changed that you made that really drove your business forward? I'm not sure whether it could be like learning something or attending a specific workshop, or well, yeah, what? Yeah, I'm going to say that again. So what, for you, was the biggest action or change that really drove your business forward?
Speaker 3:The reason I can answer this one fairly quickly is that I've answered this sort of before and other bits and bobs. So, from a purely wedding photography point of view, in terms of like shooting equipment, there's this two really, I suppose like two obvious ones, and both happened at nine dots in 2015. One was listening to Tyler working and understanding how important documentary was and good documentary being getting close, using minimal equipment and just focusing on moments and not worrying about the equipment they're using in doing so, and basically going to 35, 85 and getting rid of the 7200, the 1424, the 2470. They're the three Nikon lens that used to use a lot. I'd go to weddings with with those three lenses, plus a 50 mil, plus a tilt shift lens, plus a fisheye. You add all the lenses and I felt as though I had to use them all, otherwise I'm not working hard enough. But I run to say we're ironic, working hard enough. But yeah, then I listened to Tyler and it was like no strip back, just have two lenses and use them and just just shoot with what you've got and that was a 35 and 85 and get close. As Robert Kappa said, if your photographs aren't good enough, you're not close enough, and that is so true. The difference between a moment caught at 200 mil and that same moment caught a 35 mil to the viewer is huge, and I learned that from Tyler. So that was one. I felt as though my work got expe. What's that word? Exponential? Yes, better within six months, because I stripped back and got rid of all those lenses and I felt mentally freer at weddings. Yeah, that was a huge one for me, tyler.
Speaker 3:Also, at that same nine dots gathering I saw two men for the first time and I just realized the importance of show stopping images and the razzmatazz, if you like, of not showing the mundane showing the epic. I know they don't like this now, but like I remember they started at their talk with a slideshow and they turned all the lights down. It's the last talk that was at that nine dots conference. They turned the lights down and then they showed the most epic slideshow I've ever seen and it was to that O4 tuner like. And it was like, oh my God, at the end of that it was like what have I just seen?
Speaker 3:And I learned then the power of not just slideshows but like just showing the show stoppers, and I think I've tried to incorporate that into. I mean again, like poor man, two man, two man from wishing all that jazz, but I try to incorporate that into my work now. So that'd be the two big ones from a photography sort of point of view. Another one and a more general point, and we spoke about this in your I say your imposter syndrome in the episode that we did on imposter syndrome, which we still get nice comments about to this day.
Speaker 2:I was only speaking this morning to a flashbastards member who messaged me to tell me how much they were struggling with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I don't know how or why it has happened, although we did get deep on that podcast and we spoke about it a lot since haven't?
Speaker 2:we yeah, an awful lot.
Speaker 3:And I can only put it down to the influence of my parents, who were very, very positive and encouraging about me and what I did. Well, they still are now. I mean, my God, whatever.
Speaker 3:I do it's just, I've done it the best way it's ever been done. I'm talking like, well, you know what the light yourself like. You know, if I open a packet of Chris, it's. You've done so well to open that packet of Chris that you, perfect, was so proud of it, and you know, and it's so lovely.
Speaker 3:You know it's all rubbish, but they instilled this I don't know if you call it belief, confidence, whatever that is and I think, whereas I would have been you know I might have been a bit nervy about showing work earlier on I found it easier than most to just crack on and not worry about what other people think, and it's a gift that I didn't realize that I had until I realized how prevalent imposter syndrome is in the industry and how I'm very lucky. I can relate to it. Well, I can relate to it a little bit, but I'd be lying if I said I felt it as much as others do. You know I know in how much you struggle with it. I know that I don't struggle with it through conversations we have had and I'm very, very fortunate. So I think I've just been lucky that and I think you know I owe so much to YouTube.
Speaker 3:You know I don't think flashmasters would be around if it wasn't for YouTube. I wouldn't have a Patreon if it wasn't for YouTube. I don't think I'd probably be doing workshops or anywhere near the same degree if it wasn't for YouTube. It has given me the foundation to set up lots of different areas of my business. So I owe so much to YouTube. But I wouldn't be doing YouTube if I worried about what people thought of me and my work, because I get a lot of hate on YouTube. But I realized that so does everyone. I said this before you could come up with a cure for cancer, explain what that cure is in a YouTube video, and you get dislikes and negativity. It's crazy, but I get those comments and I literally look at them and not laugh, but it's like.
Speaker 3:Oh, you have some times Well, yeah, yeah sometimes it does make me laugh, yeah, but that sounds arrogant. But it's just because it is so washed off a duck's back that it means nothing to me, literally nothing. And I used to even comment on them and try and make them, try and wind people up or whatever, but now I just literally just sometimes just like them and say thank you for your input, thank you for your feedback, because it's irrelevant to me and it's only through speaking to you so much about imposter syndrome that I realized how fortunate Because it's not a skill that I've acquired, it just seems to be that I'm just lucky that I don't feel those same. I don't know mental struggles, I would say so I think the To answer your question in a very long-winded way it's just the ability of not worrying about what other people think of what I do, because no one and Ricky Gervais actually is a huge one on this and I really love his philosophy on this that you're never going to please all the people all the time. And he says like if you are trying to please everyone one, you're going to fail because you can't do it. And it also means that you must be making your work really diluted because, yeah, you're just trying to. You're just becoming a really sort of like I don't know how you describe it, but just a very diluted, wishy-washy version, that's. That's yeah, just a bit apathetic, I guess. Whereas if you just follow your own path, yes, some people won't like what you do.
Speaker 3:It's like the word that we do is flash. Some people think, oh, flash, I don't really want to use that, it just kills the moment. We know that's not true, but some people will just forever have the argument and they will just think that your work is not good because it's using flash and it's like well, fair play to him. That's what you believe. Good and please that we don't always have the same thoughts and views on stuff, because it's supposed to be subjective and it's good that it is.
Speaker 3:It's like some people love the Beatles, some people love the Rolling Stones, some people love Thrash Metal. Everyone's different and that's good. Can you imagine a world where we all like the same things? It would be boring. So it's good that we all like different things and we need to embrace that and understand that. If you are following your own path, you are bound to, by definition, create work that other people don't like, and that's fine. We've got to understand that that is normal and that is healthy. So don't worry if people are like what you do, fair play, like who cares? So yeah that.
Speaker 2:Oh, I just, I'm very fortunate.
Speaker 3:I'm very fortunate that it doesn't bother me.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I'm trying really hard and, like I said, only this morning I had quite a long discussion with the Flashmasters member sort of, regarding this and in terms of my own journey of trying to sort of move forward and get beyond this imposter syndrome and at least start posting social media again, it is very much been telling myself that, like literally otherwise, no one really cares what you're doing.
Speaker 3:Of course they don't.
Speaker 2:No one gives a s*** at what work you're putting out there. Let's face it?
Speaker 3:Well, we're wedding photographers. I know wedding photography is a bubble and we can end up feeling that there are famous people within this bubble, but we're wedding photographers. So the outside world, the people outside that bubble. Our job is virtually inconsequential. We know it's important, we're creating family heirlooms, but really we're not saving lives. We're not doctors, we're not changing the world. We're taking photographs on wedding days. It's not a big deal, god.
Speaker 2:It is yeah, and that's what I keep telling myself. Like to be honest outside of, like your family, or just nobody really gives a s*** what you're doing. So we're like why, yet the whole like fear of posting because people might not like it or might not think that I'm good enough? It's like, literally, as long as your couples are happy, that's all you need to worry about. So that's what I keep telling myself and I'm making progress.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you definitely are making progress. And to that person that you're you know you were speaking to, I'd say as to anybody who struggles, I would always this is the way I try and work it out I say I'm very, very lucky that I don't have this in a big way. But I'd always say answer this question to yourself. Well, one, what is stopping you from posting? Because usually it's going to be I'm not good enough, or what will those imaginary group of photographers think? They're going to think I'm not, I'm rubbish.
Speaker 3:And I'd always say one that isn't true, but okay, even if they did think that, what is going to change? What impact is that going to have? And the answer will almost certainly always be I don't know. Well, no, none. So there you go. That's what I think. That's why you've got to look at it, because the fear is other people judging you and other people judging your work. But then the next question to ask is okay, what is the worst outcome of those people judging you? And that's where I think people who struggle struggle to answer that question. Challenge yourself by asking yourself that question. You'll then think oh yeah, well, there's no real bad outcome really. So, so post.
Speaker 2:Yep crack on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly which is what?
Speaker 2:I've tried to do so. I'm going to finish on one final question, if you don't mind, neil, do we have time for one?
Speaker 3:more we do, we do, it's actually going to work out perfectly.
Speaker 2:Oh, so this one is not business related. It's not related to anything of much, really, but I thought I would ask you, on a positive note, what is your favorite way to spend a day off, and I thought that'd be quite interesting. Because I'm pretty sure, since we've got together we barely even had one.
Speaker 3:So I remember having one of them in 2005.
Speaker 2:So, yes, what would be a perfect day off for you.
Speaker 3:Is it a normal day off? I eat. It's going to happen like in two days time, or you can plan a day.
Speaker 2:Either or.
Speaker 3:This is really cheesy and maybe it's even a bit sad, but you know it's true as well. What I wouldn't do on a day off is shoot a wedding. I've put that out there. Yes, like as yesterday proved don't get me wrong I love shooting weddings, but they are hard work. I don't want to be hard work. I want to do some that I enjoy. I'm trying to build my business around just doing what I enjoy, and I genuinely love making a YouTube video, say that, going out and just shooting for fun, shooting a concept that's in my mind and trying to make it a real, a real image that lives. So that would probably be one. I just enjoy my work, but if we're also thinking, okay, you've got a day off that you can plan for and you can't have cameras.
Speaker 3:Yeah, then I will probably just off the top of my head, I don't know. Let's go into a Alton Towers, go into a theme park or something. Go into Blackpool.
Speaker 2:We do, Joe. We do have Blackpool and Alton Towers.
Speaker 3:These are not expensive tastes or anything like that. But yeah, I just love going to to Blackpool, going around the arcade, just going for a nice walk yeah, nothing fancy. Maybe going for a tie or an Indian in the evening then there you go. Yeah, I feel actually I should give you a much more rock and roll answer, but just go for a bit of a walk, go for a move.
Speaker 2:Should have something to eat.
Speaker 3:Basically, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's nothing that I would think. Oh no, I mean, you could give the. You know, you could give a little answers where it's like, well, I'm going to get up and do this, then I'm going to go there, then I'm going to go there, then I'm going to see the courtiers in the evening. But really, if it's just a being a more honest, what would you do on a day off? Yeah, it's just just yeah that. There you go.
Speaker 2:Exciting. I bet people please listen to the end of this podcast yeah, he really is a wild child.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Amazing. Well, thank you so so much, Neil, for answering all of those questions.
Speaker 3:Thank you for the questions.
Speaker 2:I hope they weren't too challenging for you. Or left field, right field.
Speaker 3:No, I think I survived. And is it time for bed now, because I am knackered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are recording this quite late at night and talk about YouTube shoots.
Speaker 3:Got YouTube shoot tomorrow? Yes, we do, which I've not even packed my bag for yet. So we'll do that now.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, so we need to get ready for that. So, yeah, thank you so much, everyone, for listening to all of those listeners out there who are listening and we don't know that you are, please feel free to give us a message on Instagram. Neil always asks for reviews. We do love a review, but, yeah, it really does mean the world to find out.
Speaker 2:It does the people are here and listening. So, for everyone who is, thank you so so much, and I'm not even going to let Neil interrupt me on this, and I'm just going to go straight to the end and tell you to keep flashing.
Speaker 3:Hey eating Jamrali Poly no way.
