Flash Masters
Welcome to the Flash Masters Podcast! Flash Masters recognises and celebrates the best flash photography in the world through education, awards and community. Hosted by Helen Williams and Neil Redfern, we talk all things wedding photography - from the equipment we use to the funniest things which have happened to us whilst photographing weddings - and we have a lot of those stories! To join the community, please visit Flashmasters.co
Flash Masters
Jesse and Moira La Plante: International workshops and the advantages of working together as a team
In the latest episode of the Flash Masters Podcast we are joined by the incredible Jesse and Moira La Plante, two of the very best wedding photographers in the world, Ambassadors for MagMod and Flash Masters and the current This is Reportage Photographers of the Year.
But this episode isn't all about photography. Join us as we peek behind the lens and dive into the personal lives of Jesse and Moira. We talk about their recent move to their brand-new home nestled in 50 acres of land, surrounded by nature, and teeming with wildlife. We play Mr & Mrs and find out who is the best dancer - and who is the funniest!
We wrap up the episode with an illuminating discussion on the unspoken communication between Jesse and Moira during a wedding shoot - their harmonious coordination, mutual support, and shared growth as photographers. They also delve into the pressure and expectations that come with the wedding industry, tackling issues like perfectionism and the constant strive for improvement. Lastly, they open up about their approach to family photography, detailing their experiences and perspectives on capturing the fleeting, beautiful moments of everyday life.
A huge thank you to Jessie and Moira for joining us!
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Flash Masters is hosted by:
Helen Williams: https://www.instagram.com/helenwilliamsphotography/
Neil Redfern: https://www.instagram.com/neilredfern/
Hi, hi, welcome to the Flash masters podcast. I am Marty Hobby and I am proud to be a member of the Flash masters community. Flash masters recognises and celebrates the best flash photography in the world through awards, education and community. To find out more and to join us, visit flashmasters. co Here are your hosts Helen Williams and Neil Redfern.
Helen Williams:Hello there, everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Flash masters podcast, with me Helen Williams and me Neil Redfern, and today we are joined by two amazing guests, our first ever guest outside of the UK coming alive from somewhere I've forgotten, somewhere in the Americas, oh my God, geography is not Helen's strong point. Somewhere far away in America we have got. Well, I'll ask them later. We've got Jesse and Moira, La Plante, everyone.
Neil Redfern:Hey, thank you both so much for joining us.
Jesse La Plante:We're so excited to have you on, yeah, all the way over here in the magical fairy tale land of Colorado, the Americas.
Moira La Plante:North.
Jesse La Plante:America somewhere, western Hemisphere, for sure.
Helen Williams:The Americans.
Neil Redfern:No, thank you very much for your time and also, publicly, thank you for your patience as well. We've just spent literally 40 minutes trying to figure out how to do these things over Zoom and we think we've got there. You'll be able to tell when you listen. If this sounds half okay, then we've got it to work. If it sounds awful, I failed.
Helen Williams:But either way, I'm sure it's going to be absolutely hilarious and we're so excited to have you guys, so thank you for being our first non-UK guests.
Neil Redfern:No, international baby.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, thank you for having me. We're honored, and if it does sound bad, trust us, it's our fault, it's not Neil or Helen's. We are at least I am very technologically declined, so if our recording doesn't work, that's all on us.
Moira La Plante:I like how he said that and then said that he's bad at technology, and then it said it's all on us, when clearly he's just very politely trying to say it's on me.
Helen Williams:Well, I am absolutely useless, and if it was down to me then there wouldn't be a podcast. So, yeah, it's all down to Neil on the other end. So thank you, neil, for all that you do for us.
Neil Redfern:I've got to say to start off with I believe it's not going to be too long, jesse and moira, to actually meet you in person, because you're coming to the UK, from the Americas to the UK later this year.
Jesse La Plante:All the way from the Americas on a ship. It should be a journey of three weeks. Yes, we will be in. It is Leeds correct? Somewhere in the UK's?
Moira La Plante:In the UK's, in all of the United Kingdoms, somewhere within the kingdoms of the of the unity.
Jesse La Plante:Yes, we will be there for nine dots. We can't wait. It's what, four months from now?
Moira La Plante:Yes.
Jesse La Plante:We've been in London for about exactly four months. I've only ever been to London before and it was like a really long, extended layover. So I was there for like 14 hours or something. We went to a pub and we saw Piccadilly Circus.
Moira La Plante:When he says we, I was not there the longest. I have been was a short layover at Heathrow.
Jesse La Plante:And then we took a train to Heathrow and slept on the floor for about four hours and then flew home to the Americas and I'm looking forward to getting out in the country seeing different parts. We're going to take some time in Scotland ahead of time because we like to drink a wee bit of Scotch and see castles.
Neil Redfern:A wee drum A wee drum.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, he said drum. Once here we're doing a Scotch tasting here in Colorado and he used the term drum and the guy had no idea what he was talking about.
Neil Redfern:Oh really. Yeah, I'm no whiskey connoisseur at all, but I think that's fairly common yeah.
Jesse La Plante:I mean, even over here it's common, I think you know, to refer to like a tiny bit of Scotch in a glass.
Neil Redfern:Yeah, Obviously you two. I'm sure everybody listen is very, very aware of Jesse and Moira. They are incredible photographers. I'm trying to think off the top of my head at your roll call. You've just been named the best photographer in the world by. This is Repertage ambassadors for numerous brands, including MagMod and Flash masters. You are insanely talented when it comes to off camera flash. Again, we said this before, but thank you so much, not only for joining us today, but also for being part of the Flash masters community. We are so honored to have you and Jay. It's going to be, it's going to be really amazing. So if you, obviously you're doing a workshop over here. I know you'd run many workshops, I've got to say locally, but across America, but have you done workshops outside of?
Jesse La Plante:America, the Americas. Well, actually, this will be our first workshop outside of the Americas because, we did one in Mexico.
Moira La Plante:Why?
Jesse La Plante:flashing so we've done it in the Americas.
Neil Redfern:Mexico is the Americas Yep. It goes all the way down to.
Jesse La Plante:Tierra Del Fuego and Argentina, but yeah, so never outside of the Americas. This will be our first European workshop, so we are very, very excited.
Neil Redfern:Heli just lost the plot, by the way, for every listener, so I'm just trying to fill in the blanks here.
Helen Williams:I just can't stop blushing for every listening.
Neil Redfern:For those who aren't aware, nine Dots is a huge photography gathering, as the term that let's use. It's happening this year in Leeds, in November, I believe. So what could we actually just tell Jesse more of the date of your workshop before we get into all the other stuff? So people are aware.
Jesse La Plante:It is the, it's November 12th or the 12th of November, I suppose, as you would say over there. So it's two days before Nine Dots starts, because it's Sunday. Monday is like some festivities, some pre festivities leading up to the workshops or leading up to the conference. So yeah, the workshop will be on Sunday, the 12th of November. Cool, and what would be covered on the workshop? So it's a. This is it will be our first time doing a one day workshop. Typically we do three days. The first thing we're doing is we're condensing it down into basically the most important information when it comes to off-camera flash and business, because Mora is sort of a business guru and off-camera flash guru these days. So she does it all. I do the off-camera flash, yeah what do you talk?
Jesse La Plante:about business.
Moira La Plante:Ideal client, yeah, ideal client is a huge one that we hit on, because I think I would say that our the success of our business is very directly tied to us figuring out who our ideal client is and marketing Straight to them and not worrying about everyone else and not trying to appeal to everyone else and just really honing in on that. And so it's a huge part of what we teach. And you know, even when we teach very photography focused workshops, we're still going to put business in it, because the way that we approach it is very holistic. You really cannot separate the two. And so you know, even if you sign up for the photography part, we're going to teach you some stuff about business too.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, I feel like you can't really separate the heart from the head in these situations, because our style is very off-camera, flash centric and it's important to find clients that actually like that style, right. So most of the people over here in the Americas who shoot in Colorado specifically I'm sorry I'm going to, I can't get that out of my head now there's a lot of sort of like natural light photographers and kind of blown up background light and airy, which I'm not knocking. I'm not saying that's better or worse, right, it's different styles, but you do kind of. It is important to sort of target your ideal client that you know that demographic or psychographic that likes specifically what you do. So it's one thing to just shoot in a specific way, but it's a whole other ballgame to actually find the people who are willing to pay for that.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, and if you don't know what demographics or psychographics are, that's okay. We talk about that at the workshop.
Jesse La Plante:Yes, and we're calling it a distilled workshop, not because we're drinking Scotch, which we might, but because it's basically a boiled down, condensed version. It's sort of like we've been talking about it as like the Cliffs Notes or the Spark Notes version of the workshop, so it's just sort of boiled down to the most important bits. So instead of reading the entirety of Romeo and Juliette right you just get to read what happens to Mercutio and what happens at the end and so forth.
Helen Williams:Incredible. Yeah, I'm so excited to have you guys over and I will say obviously you've got your UK workshop, which obviously we're so excited for you guys for. But I have actually been onto your website and I'm on it now, at the moment, as well.
Jesse La Plante:Oh, oh, oh oh.
Helen Williams:I freaking love your website Absolutely, I hope that it's up and running. Oh, it is, it is, I checked it this morning.
Moira La Plante:No, yeah, and that means a lot, because I or website is my, my baby. I built it from the ground up and it goes wrong is my fault.
Martin Hobby:Anything that goes right is my fault.
Moira La Plante:I know just enough web design to be dangerous. It's fantastic.
Helen Williams:It's super fancy. All the scrolling and the bits of fly in and that is incredible.
Neil Redfern:I'm not on your website the moment I'm going on it now but I do know how much I love it. I can pitch your website in my head without even opening it up.
Helen Williams:Yeah, it's absolutely fantastic, and I'm just quickly looking through sort of your education session and, yeah, you seem to teach absolutely everything. There's something for everyone there.
Moira La Plante:There really is. Well, I mean, I think that's one of the things that we also love about wedding photography is it just combines every type of photography. You have portraiture, you know creative portraiture, you have landscape photography, you have documentary, architectural, so we really like to kind of blend all of that stuff. And, personally, I think that's one of the things I love about weddings is the challenge of doing all that on a wedding day, which is admittedly, incredibly chaotic, and people are going to throw stuff at you and try to make your job as hard as possible. And so I thrive with the challenge like make my job really hard and I'm going to rise to the occasion.
Jesse La Plante:Well. So I mean we don't like to do the same thing over and over again. So I mean, every like we teach all kinds of different workshops. We teach workshops just on astrophotography, for example, and a big part of that is like just keeping ourselves engaged so that we're not, it doesn't become this like rote thing that we're just kind of knocking out every weekend like a nine to five job and every group dynamic is completely different. So yeah, we thrive on novelty, for sure.
Helen Williams:Yeah, it's absolutely insane. I said well done, myra. I think I've seen you croat quote it might be on the flashbastard's webpage that, like you, are like the Jane of all trades, and I cannot believe that you've done this yourself. You've just got so much knowledge.
Moira La Plante:But here's the funny thing about it is, like I said, I know just enough to be dangerous. I have deleted our entire website twice and restored it before Jesse found out, but that, I will tell you, was a very nerve wracking time where I'm like oh no, what have I done? I need to fix this immediately.
Moira La Plante:Oh, my goodness One was actually on Thanksgiving and Jesse was in the kitchen opening a bottle of champagne. We were about to sit down to start a movie marathon and I'm sitting there on the laptop furiously typing and trying to restore the backup.
Jesse La Plante:I feel like this is the first time hearing of this it might be. I'm just casually popping bottles in the kitchen and then you're crashing the website All right, all right. That's life, you know.
Moira La Plante:I fixed it, didn't I?
Jesse La Plante:Apparently, because here it is yeah.
Neil Redfern:So am. I right Helen in thinking that we all know Jesse Murr is being two of the best photographers in the world. But, as in true Flashmasters podcast fashion, we were going to go a bit more informal for this. Is that correct? Because I know you've got a little game prepared, haven't?
Helen Williams:you for Jesse.
Neil Redfern:Murr that they don't know about.
Helen Williams:No, jesse Murr has got no clue that this is coming and I got really excited when I came up for this idea and most people would go, oh, that's naff as hell, helen, but I'm excited.
Jesse La Plante:Does the game involve you teaching us British slang, because I feel like some of the words I don't recognize.
Helen Williams:Maybe we can do that, we can add that in. That could be a different one the original plan is to be. We're going to be playing and I think you have this in the US the traditional game of Mr and Mrs.
Jesse La Plante:We have quite confused. Is it like the newlyweds game or the shoe game?
Moira La Plante:Well, we have the shoe game at wedding.
Neil Redfern:It sounds like the shoe game.
Jesse La Plante:Oh, the shoe game yeah yeah, yeah. It sounds like that yes, but obviously for a podcast.
Helen Williams:You can't really be listening to shoes, because no one's going to be able to hear. So I'm going to ask you a series of questions no.
Neil Redfern:no see, helen see.
Helen Williams:See, you can hear perfectly fine. Oh, yes, ok.
Neil Redfern:Ha, ha, ha ha. We'll get through this together.
Jesse La Plante:We can hear you all the way over here in the Americas.
Helen Williams:Honestly.
Jesse La Plante:I am still, I have been.
Helen Williams:I am blushing so hard.
Jesse La Plante:I'm not making fun, I'm just. Well, I guess I am making fun. Oh, do it, it's good fun. Yes, I hope, oh yeah go for it.
Helen Williams:Yeah, neil takes the mic out of me all the time and it's always well-deserved. So I'm more than yeah, I'm used to it. So I'm going to ask you a series of questions about each other and then, after I've asked it, I'm going to count from three to one and on one Maybe don't shout too much because of the levels and the peaking, et cetera You're going to say out loud the person who you think is most suited to that particular question.
Moira La Plante:This is going to be really interesting, because we've never done anything like that, like we didn't have a wedding, so we never played any of these kinds of games or anything. So this is going to be our very first time.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, let's do it, I'm excited.
Helen Williams:We've already finding out something new. So, first of all, out of the two of you, who is the funniest? Three, two, one go.
Martin Hobby:Jesse.
Helen Williams:Oh, interesting.
Moira La Plante:No, I seriously am laughing all the time, to the point where just like every single day, just his facial expressions, the things he says.
Jesse La Plante:Well, now I want to say that I'm not bragging. This is like the only thing I'm better at than Moira. We have these conversations sometimes where it's like what am I even bringing to this relationship really? Because she's paying bills and I mean it's both our money but she's taking care of everything and handling things and booking travel and she works on the business and she takes photographs.
Neil Redfern:And Jesse, you walking in in a clown outfit.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, and I just make some wisecracks here or there.
Moira La Plante:She's also really good at reaching things on the top shelf. Ok, so don't sell it to yourself short, yeah, I suppose.
Jesse La Plante:Those two things I can make her laugh, and I can reach, and I can just group peanut butter jars and whatnot. No, he is really funny.
Moira La Plante:And in fact when we first met, we were at an all-inclusive resort in the Bahamas and he offered to buy me a drink and I was like that's funny.
Jesse La Plante:I think that's funny. That's her version. My version is that I couldn't get a beer because the bartender wouldn't come up to me and she ordered one for me.
Martin Hobby:So we have no idea which one is true.
Moira La Plante:There was alcohol involved.
Martin Hobby:Yeah, there was.
Helen Williams:But, yes, amazing, thank you. So we're going to go to the next one. This is going to be interesting. Who is the vainest? Three, two, one go Me. Um I guess Jesse knows what to do. He's saying he speaks volume. Let's do that again.
Martin Hobby:Three two one.
Jesse La Plante:Jesse, how much time has been looking in the mirror? We have separate bathrooms now, so it's like we can't catch each other yeah we don't really know. Gazing at ourselves.
Neil Redfern:Yeah, congratulations on the new house. How's it all going? For those that aren't aware, Jesse more just moved into it. It's not even fair to say house, is it? This is a sprawling ranch.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, it's a behemoth. We're still trying to figure out what we want to name it, but that's low on the list of things to do. Yeah, it's on 50 acres of land we have cattle, they were out there yesterday.
Jesse La Plante:Right, we have every we've seen black bears, scorpions, road runners, bobcats squirrels, rabbits, deer elk, antelope, herbs, pronghorn, Pronghorn. Yeah, it's like everything you could possibly imagine. It's been a huge learning curve, but it's been an adventure.
Neil Redfern:Oh, congratulations, Shibbo.
Moira La Plante:It looks beautiful, it looks very bare, I mean so Neil and Helen can see it right now, but yeah, we're in the process of filling in the furniture.
Helen Williams:That's absolutely amazing. Yeah, we're so pleased for you. Hopefully we can be in a similar situation we have our fingers crossed for you, but with less scorpions.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, we would like less scorpions too. It's like a road road, though.
Neil Redfern:That would be amazing, and we have coyotes too.
Jesse La Plante:However, we have not seen the two together never the twain she met in the desert.
Moira La Plante:From what I hear, though, the road runners eat the scorpions, and they also fight snakes.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, so we have a little snake. We have not seen a rattlesnake yet, but apparently they're there Because we have road runners.
Neil Redfern:They are all around. It's like you're living in a David. That's in a documentary.
Jesse La Plante:That's not. Yeah, it is very Old West. It's like Clint Eastwood situation out here.
Helen Williams:Yeah, yeah. Do you guys have any zoom lenses as well? Have you tried photographing any of these?
Jesse La Plante:Not really. No, because we've been so busy with home improvement stuff we haven't really had time for hobby photography. I mean, we do stuff on our cell phones, we'll take little videos here and there, but no, we have a 200. Once we get settled in more we'll probably break that out and start working on that. We've photographed a lot of sunsets, because every single night is just the most incredible. We have 360 views around the house of the surrounding Rocky Mountains and it's just like every night there's this incredible majestic sunset, with some sort of storm coming in and sun rays piercing through the clouds and tenobristic lighting on the mountains.
Moira La Plante:The other day it was like a pink that you don't really see much in nature views it looks like is this fake?
Jesse La Plante:It looks like someone set up a green screen around our entire house and you just look out the window because it's just like too perfect. You think it's fake. Right, I do wish it was fake.
Helen Williams:Yeah, I wish we had the video for this, just because, as you were describing that, I noticed both Neil and I had our jaws wide open, just a gate like this sounds amazing.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, yeah, I could take this little camera and take you around the port. We have a deck that wraps 360 around the house too, so we can walk to east, west, north, south around the house and look at it. But it's an audio podcast, unfortunately.
Helen Williams:Now that there's anything wrong with that. It's good for me because I haven't done my hair OK, so we could be here all day on these. My next one was going to be who's the best driver? Three, two, one go.
Jesse La Plante:Jesse, oh, ok, so I have more than one thing I can drive and I can do two weeks.
Moira La Plante:I just hope. And this is probably the best example of why he is the best driver. I once backed our car into a tree at a wedding, with the bride in the back seat blindfolded. What?
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, she's blindfolded because we they were blindfolded. I didn't mean to the bride, oh you fell oh why,
Moira La Plante:was the bride blindfolded. So this was in Estes Park, which is right outside of Rocky Mountain National Park, and they wanted to do their first look inside Rocky Mountain National Park. And we didn't want to take two cars into the park and so we're like cool, we're going to blindfold both of them in the back, and I made it for some really great photos. They were blindfolded in the back. We didn't realize how sketchy it looked. Driving into the park and talking to the rangers with two people blindfolded in their back, seat and a tail light out.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, and a big dent in the back and one of the tail lights out the glass hanging on and he said we'll go in to shoot them.
Moira La Plante:And maybe some elk too. Yeah.
Jesse La Plante:I'm going to shoot them with my 200 millimeter.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, yeah, so that OK. So I think maybe I just have problems with backing up because, also when I was in high school, I backed into the car that was driven by the director of driver's education.
Helen Williams:My mom didn't find that nearly as funny as I did.
Jesse La Plante:Luckily you grew up in the lawless west of Montana, which is somewhere in the Americas. It's somewhere.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, no, Montana is pretty chill about a lot of stuff.
Jesse La Plante:So they're like yeah, here's your license, young lady.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, well, they give you your license. You can get it at 12 and 1 half if you drive a tractor.
Jesse La Plante:There was also a time when we were moving across the country in a van and we stopped at a rest stop to use the restroom and got back on the highway and it was like Maura, can you drive for a little bit? She's like sure, we get back on the highway. I'm starting to fall asleep and I look up at the road and I noticed there's no lights on the car. And the road is pitch black in front of us. I was like Maura are the headlights on?
Jesse La Plante:And she looks at me and she goes shh.
Neil Redfern:Will you bleep us if we swear? I don't know. Yeah, oh, yeah, you go for it.
Jesse La Plante:She's like shit and pulls off to the side of the road and I jump back in the driver's seat and she didn't drive again the rest of that trip.
Moira La Plante:No, ok, in my defense I was the only girl in my family and my parents were protective of me, so they never let me drive at night. When I had my learner's permit, and even when I went to take my driver's test, I didn't know how to turn on the lights. They told me to turn on the lights in the car and I turned on the windshield wipers and then I went and I lived in DC for five years and didn't drive while I was there, because you don't need a car in DC, and so I was very much out of practice. I'm much better now, but I just have poor spatial awareness.
Neil Redfern:I'm some good stories.
Helen Williams:Yeah. It's great to have stories like that I just loved how instantly you were like yeah, we know the answer to this one. Ok, so next one. I've only got two more after this, I think. So the next one is who is more dramatic? Three, two, one go.
Jesse La Plante:Moira, I don't know, these are tough dramatic Because there's so many different ways you can interpret that right Like All right, so I'll tell you how I'm interpreting it.
Moira La Plante:So for me, my brain will go to the craziest, worst case scenarios and I believe that they're going to happen. Yeah, and so I won't even tell you some of the things that I've stressed out about that were just not even on the radar of something that is possible happening. But my brain is like, oh no, this is going to happen, and then I'll go into a spiral and I'll freak out about it and be completely convinced that it's real.
Jesse La Plante:When I think I was thinking more like being demonstrative and speaking and I talk with my hands a lot and things like that. So I was thinking maybe more dramatic in that sense, but you would be the better actor too.
Moira La Plante:I can't act to save my life.
Helen Williams:Very good, OK, so next one. I like to do one more after this Is who is the most stubborn? Three, two, one go. Muehra oh she's giving such a decent size as well. Like who me?
Moira La Plante:Yeah, no, I am absolutely, absolutely the most stubborn. If you asked if you met anyone in my family just randomly and you asked them to describe me stubborn, would probably be the very first thing that they told you oh, yeah, yeah. But I mean it has to do with, just like I, I spend a lot of time thinking really hard about what I want. So when I make a decision, I'm very, very firm in that decision and it's really it's almost impossible to sway me from it because I've spent time thinking about it.
Jesse La Plante:What was it your grandfather said to you at dinner?
Moira La Plante:Yeah, yeah. So my my grandfather, shortly before he passed away, told me that. So he was technically my step-grandfather, fantastic guy Fred White, loved his like one glass of Chardonnay at the end of the night up until his last days, and he told so. He and my grandmother got married when I was in fourth grade and he told me that I was the youngest girl he had ever met who was so sure of herself. And I think what happened was we were at dinner and I've always been a picky eater too, especially when I was little and I ordered exactly what I wanted.
Moira La Plante:You know, I ordered it from the waiter and people were trying to be like well, aren't you sure that you don't want this thing, are you sure? And I was very forceful and I was like this is what I want I, this is what I ordered and this is what I want. And I was in like third grade and he said that he was so impressed that I was so young and yet I knew my own mind so well. And I was like I really that meant so much to hear it from me, from him, because it's a huge compliment.
Moira La Plante:Right. Well, and I respect him so much. He was such a brilliant man and to reframe that stubbornness, I think it meant a lot to me because you know it had been something that I fought for a very long time. Like I'm stubborn, is this a bad thing? And so the fact that he put that spin on it, I was like, okay, this is something that I can get on board with, like it's not a bad thing. Yes, it was incredibly hard for my parents to raise me, but I think the world needs more stubborn women.
Helen Williams:Amazing. Oh, I feel inspired. Yeah, I am the opposite of stubborn and just let anyone walk over me as well and I can't make a decision. So yeah, we're quite opposite there. Yeah, yeah, interesting. So my last one, and I'm hoping I get to you know, see this in person at the Nine Dots Party. But who is the best dancer? Three, two, one go, jessie.
Jesse La Plante:Oh, Now I'd prefist by saying that neither of us is a particularly good dancer. It's just that it's not something that Mora it's not in her wheelhouse. No, not really in my wheelhouse either, but you know, I've been known to dance a time or two.
Moira La Plante:I actually don't love dancing. I don't really enjoy it all that much. I much prefer at a party to like I'm the one in the corner that finds the party dog and like hangs out with the party dog.
Neil Redfern:Yeah, I'm with you. But there is a tradition, I'm sure you're aware, at Nine Dots, especially the last night, where there is an epic, epic party. Yeah, I'm sure anyone who's coming is going to see the proof of Jessie being the best dancer.
Jesse La Plante:No again, I don't want that taken out of context. I'm a terrible dancer. I have a little bit of rhythm, but no, I'm not a good dancer at all. It's just that out of the two of us, I maybe have the slight edge.
Moira La Plante:What he's saying is I am so bad that even a terrible dancer will be better than me.
Neil Redfern:You will both be better than me to hell, and I'm sure I'll say this though.
Jesse La Plante:Hey, do you guys know the Talking Heads? Yes, the band from the 80s and 90s.
Helen Williams:Nah.
Jesse La Plante:They have a documentary like a live concert shoot that's called Stop Making Sense that if that's on, I can't stop moving. It's just something in my brain gets switched. It's like I just can't. My body won't hold still.
Neil Redfern:Need to tell Rahul this. Ellen, yeah, making note.
Helen Williams:Talking Heads. Cut that out.
Jesse La Plante:I'm going to conveniently step out the back if I hear Talking Heads. Now no chance.
Moira La Plante:So you'll just keep by yourself in an alley.
Jesse La Plante:I've always lived my life with the philosophy of under-promising, over-delivering, and I feel like I'm doing the exact opposite right now.
Martin Hobby:Everybody's like yeah let's see Jessie dance.
Jesse La Plante:It's going to be great, and they're just going to be sorely disappointed.
Neil Redfern:I remember a few years ago at Nine Dots, Lanny dancing like Michael Jackson. I was about to say the same, yeah, nowhere near Lanny level.
Jesse La Plante:Lanny is like he's got the Michael Jackson thing going on, yeah, yeah.
Helen Williams:No, he's pretty good. See, you guys will not be crowdsurfing or grabbing your crotch. I could crowdsurf, oh yeah.
Jesse La Plante:I've crowdsurfed. We used to go to a lot of concerts. I've crowdsurfed quite a few times, more occasions than not, though it's like someone crowdsurfing who lands on your head.
Martin Hobby:I feel like is what happens.
Jesse La Plante:But yeah, not since, like the late 90s, early 2000s though we could reprise that I suppose if the right music comes on and the crowd is dense enough, there's nothing worse than just taking a head around the floor, you know.
Neil Redfern:Hey, that doesn't sell Nine Dots. Nothing will. Yeah, oh brilliant.
Helen Williams:So thank you very much for playing the Mr and Mrs game. No, that was fun. I was meant to keep score and I didn't, so never mind, it was entertaining.
Moira La Plante:I think we're not fun, because we agree on most of them. We've been together long enough and I think we're both pretty realistic about our capabilities and our lack of capabilities in certain areas, so we've been lucky that we managed to complement each other in most areas.
Neil Redfern:I was just about to say it sounds like you do that in business as well from what you were saying earlier, because you're taking care of the website and the business side. Well, according to Jesse, most things, moira.
Moira La Plante:And that's my background. And I say that's my background, even though I've been doing photography for longer than I was in business school. But I did get a degree in business when I went to college.
Neil Redfern:A useful tool to have in your armory, isn't it for doing this job?
Moira La Plante:Absolutely no. And if anyone is out there who's like 17, 18, looking to go off to college or university and is wondering what to do, just get a business degree. Because I think that that's too young to decide what you want to do for the rest of your life, but a business degree will help you, no matter where you go, as long as like accounting, finance, marketing. That's essentially how our world works today. So if you learn a little bit about that, it takes a little bit of the. It lifts the veil on literally everything.
Jesse La Plante:And it transcends industry, right. So if let's say, hypothetically speaking, wedding photography isn't a thing, in 10 years, you still have those skills that are applicable to any other area you want to go into. So, yeah, that's definitely better than what I did, which was go for photojournalism and then the year that I graduated, all the print newspapers basically tanked and switched over to weddings. But, yeah, our skills are definitely very complementary. If you imagine it's like a Venn diagram, it would be two circles, just like barely touching at the edge, right?
Neil Redfern:Because I'm, but you've got all bases covered. That's the main thing. Yeah, because I think so many photographers are naturally creative and the business side is scary to them. I know I fall into that bracket, helen, you're the same, aren't you? Yeah, if anything, if it gets something like to do with finance, it's like oh, I don't want to know.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, I actually was just talking to an accountant and I needed them for one specific thing and he kept trying to upsell me and he's like and who does your books? I was like that's me, and who does this? I'm like that's me. Who files your sales tax? I'm like that's me, I have it handled. And, honestly, even if I outsourced any of that stuff, I would still want to know what's happening, because I've heard enough horror stories of someone hiring someone who then completely screws everything up.
Moira La Plante:And so regardless of outsourcing is great, but I still think you need to have that basis of understanding how all this stuff works so you can check that other person's work.
Neil Redfern:I'll take my heart off to you all. I wish I did. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to that sort of stuff.
Helen Williams:I would say neither of us are very business focused or business minded. And we often have to remind each other OK, business brain now, well, we don't really have one. We try, but fail yeah.
Neil Redfern:Even in last week's podcast I can't remember why we were discussing this, but I think you said something, like Helen, along the lines of what's the biggest mistake you made, or something, and not really a mistake, but I said that I wish I had some sort of like a manager type figure who could guide the business. That's where I feel like I struggle. So amazing that you do complete each other so well.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, you know, I think the other thing that I would say that on this topic, specifically for any photographers, though is, you know, I think people see like, oh, she's got a business degree, she must know all this complicated stuff. The biggest thing that I do is I keep it simple. I keep so much of our business very simple so that I know that we can handle it. You know, because we do everything in house, we could get more complex, but I always sit there and try to think like, okay, making it, we'll making it more complex help us or hurt us in the long term. So, you know, if we're making a new decision, trying something new, we always look at like is this something that we can actually manage or is it going to just become, you know, a pain or something that takes up too much of our time or something that gets too complicated, and really make that decision on whether or not we do something based on that. So, yeah, keep it simple, you really don't have to complicate it.
Moira La Plante:I do think that business is way more of an art than it is a science. So I think a lot of creatives think that there's a right and a wrong answer to how you, you know, run your business, and it's really funny. I was talking to a friend of mine about accounting specifically, and in the US we have what they call. It's called GAP Generally Accepted Accounting Principles which means that there are literally no rules about accounting. You know, which is very math oriented. You would think there are rules, but what you have to be able to do is just show that you have a process that you follow. It doesn't have to be exactly what the other person is.
Moira La Plante:It doesn't have to be what you know, like some big company uses. You just have to have a Generally Accepted Principle and like process that you follow.
Jesse La Plante:This might not apply to other countries. May or may not apply, may or may not, I don't know, yeah, all of my business knowledge is entirely US-based.
Helen Williams:Yeah not even the Americans, not even the Americans, not even the Americans.
Jesse La Plante:We can't go down to Columbia and do business Probably, but yeah, just the Northern Americas.
Helen Williams:Oh, I've got a little heart flustered again. Oh, amazing. So yeah, obviously we've talked about a bit of everything so far, but I think what I wanted to drill down to, especially being in a relationship with Neil, another photographer, running flash masses together, etc. What would you say is the best thing about working together as a husband and wife team and what's the worst? And maybe like, how do you manage that? That's a very broad question though, but I'm hoping you've got some thoughts.
Jesse La Plante:Well, yeah, let's get specific with the best and the worst. First right, because it's a. I mean, we could go on forever with that.
Moira La Plante:With the worst.
Neil Redfern:No, With the general idea of it. Anybody listening? Am I right? Masheuna, you shoot. Every wedding, every shoot you do together.
Jesse La Plante:Yes.
Neil Redfern:It's not like you split up that role. You're always out shooting together.
Jesse La Plante:We're always out shooting together. Okay, I have the best. Do you want to take the worst? I'll take the best.
Moira La Plante:I thought we each got to pick the best and worst.
Jesse La Plante:What's your best and worst?
Moira La Plante:No, you have yours already. You go first. I have my best, I don't have my worst yet.
Jesse La Plante:So, okay, the best thing is, I didn't realize what the best thing was until I had to shoot a wedding without Moira, and I've only ever done that once in 16-ish years. It was a day where she had her brother's wedding in Montana and we had another wedding booked in Colorado and I had to either shoot it on my own or hire a second photographer. I hired a second photographer and the whole day was just absolutely miserable, because I didn't realize until that day how much of what we do on the wedding day is unspoken. We have this communication where she knows what I want in need and vice versa. If I say, if I just shoot her a look, she knows oh, it's probably his battery's dead or the flash isn't firing, I need to turn it off and back on again, she just automatically knows. If she's like hey, could you go grab me? Whatever a grid, I know exactly where it is I take it and I throw it to her from across the room.
Moira La Plante:I don't catch it because, remember, I referred to you about my poor spatial awareness.
Jesse La Plante:So yeah, it really is that unspoken. I didn't recognize how much there was going on there in the subtext between like this dance that we're doing with each other the whole day. I didn't even see it until it was taken away from me.
Neil Redfern:Yeah, and not only is that a beautiful thing to say, but that is also invaluable as well on a wedding day the stress saving that that was involved as well. It must be amazing to think I need this and then your partner knows exactly what it is. You mean that's incredible.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, absolutely, if I have the wide angle. She has a telephoto. We're getting two complementary angles. If she's shooting over here, I'm shooting over here. We're not in each other's way. Yeah, okay, worst thing.
Moira La Plante:I was going to say I'm going to talk about my best so you can think about your worst while I'm talking.
Jesse La Plante:Sounds good.
Moira La Plante:Because he doesn't listen to me anyway. No, just kidding. No, I think my best is very similar to that, in the sense that I feel like we are one super photographer split into two bodies. So you have two physical bodies so we can split ourselves up, but it's almost like we share a brain. The way we divide the day, we can each specialize in a different part of the day, which also means that we don't feel like we're really competing against each other. So it really does feel like we're essentially one person divided into two bodies.
Neil Redfern:That's really nice Question for you both. If you have shot a wedding, then maybe I don't know what your actual workflow is after the wedding day. But if you look back six months later, do you always know who's taking each image or does it merge?
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, sometimes I don't know for sure, but I have to go in and look at the file name and we have a different prefix on our different cameras. But occasionally, if one of us is taking a break, we'll just hand off the camera, in which case it does get a little bit blurry sometimes. I usually have a slightly higher vantage point, but that doesn't apply if you're holding the camera up in the air or lower down and stuff like that. So yeah, for entering awards and things like that, it can be a little bit tricky.
Neil Redfern:That's great. I think it sounds like a huge good idea. A huge compliment to both of you that that happened. It shows how well you've you know you're merging into, like you said, more like into one super photographer, when you're not sure who's taking what. I think that's brilliant. I think when you get to that stage you know you've cracked it.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, well, and also, I mean, I learned photography almost entirely from Jesse. I've learned, you know, I picked up bits and pieces here and there, but and this is in spite of me being an awful student, you know, talking about being stubborn I have to decide. I want to learn it, and he taught me a lot. Considering the fact that I fought him the entire way, I'm shocked that he didn't give up. But that means that my style and yet, like I think, our individual styles are slightly different, but they're very complimentary. So, you know, what I see is going to be different from what he sees, just because of our own life experiences and what kind of catches our eye, but they're still going to be incredibly complimentary because he taught me everything I know about photography.
Jesse La Plante:What I realized is that, if you know I want to provide some constructive criticism or, you know, work on a new technique and try it, I'm like, okay, she's not going to be receptive right away, she's going to give me this. Look like you.
Neil Redfern:You got to in stage.
Jesse La Plante:It's a long game, but I know that she'll take that away, right, and she'll eventually come and she'll let it simmer and then she'll eventually internalize it. So I've learned to like don't be offended if she looks like she wants to bite your face off. If you're trying to say something like just give her time, Like a month from now, she'll come back and say, oh, I took that thing. And I was like I realized, yeah, that was actually a good tip, Thanks, it's just so. Just need to give it some time.
Helen Williams:You know I was, so the same.
Neil Redfern:I was even scared to say, but I was thinking I can understand and relate exactly what you're saying, Jesse.
Helen Williams:Yeah, I hate being told what to do. Absolutely hate it, helen.
Neil Redfern:sometimes rejects reality, don't you? And you're trying to argue against science until you say absolutely you can't, dare I say. It's going to say what we've told you about this morning. Helen, a little bit.
Helen Williams:Yeah, go for it.
Neil Redfern:But Helen was, and you're doing really well with this. Helen was just trying to lose a bit of weight at the moment. We both have very poor lifestyles, especially during wedding season, and I was just explaining that calories in versus calories out, and Helen was almost like trying to fight against that by saying, no, but I'm not eating a lot and I am doing exercise, so I don't know why I'm not losing weight, and things like that. I was thinking, yeah, you can't really argue with the science of it, though.
Jesse La Plante:I'll say it goes both ways, though, like it's the same thing. When more you know with business stuff, when more tries to give me to do something, I'm probably equally as resistant. And you know, she's like, no, we have to do it like this because of X, y and Z. And I'm like, oh my God, why is the world like that? And she's like, never mind, why it's like that. It is like that Deal with it, jesse. I'm like, god damn it, I don't want to.
Jesse La Plante:So yeah it goes both ways. It's just that we all have our thing, that we're, you know, stubborn about, I suppose.
Moira La Plante:Well and I think that that's an important part of it is recognizing that not only in the other person, that that's their thing, but also in yourself, and being like, okay, this is my thing, and the fact that we've gotten to this point where he knows this about me and I know it about me and we both have our way of working around it because clearly I'm not changing. You know, like there's always going to be those little things where that's not going to change. That's just who you are, you're not going to change, but we've found little workarounds.
Moira La Plante:I think the other key part is we don't get insulted knowing that the other one has these workarounds, you know, Jesse has all these little like strings that he pulls to get me to do things, and I know what he's doing and it pisses me off, but I also know that it's good for everything. So you know.
Neil Redfern:It's very big of a dream to admit that, though. My right thing Like, because you know, though he's trying to play you in a way, but it's for the greater good, but it sounds like you do it both to each other. Oh yeah, I mean it's the effects.
Moira La Plante:Yeah yeah, everyone's got different communication styles, and if, as long as you understand the different communication styles and it will work, but remember like I deleted our entire website twice and this is the first time you ever heard about it. So talk about like pulling strings.
Jesse La Plante:So worst thing, what's your worst thing about working together?
Moira La Plante:I think it's that. So on a wedding day, you know you're dealing with high emotion, whether that's good emotion or bad emotion, it's stress, it's anxiety of that is manufactured in the wedding industry, which is dumb, but that's a whole other podcast topic. But as the photographer, you're with the couple all day, so you are dealing with this constant feedback of energy. So the bride's freaking out about something. You can't reflect that back to her. We've had hair and makeup run like two hours behind and I remember the bride was freaking out and I had to just sit there and be like, oh no, no, no, it's okay, we're totally fine. And in my head I'm like oh, my god, what are we gonna do? This is a catastrophe. But I can't reflect that back to her. So what do I end up doing? I put it on him. So the next time that we're together, I just let it all out at him and it's not a fun experience for him.
Moira La Plante:I know that because he's done the same to me. It's not fun on me.
Jesse La Plante:I've never done that before.
Moira La Plante:It's not fun being on that receiving end, but that's the only place that you have to release it, you know. So that's kind of a good thing because you do have somewhere to release it, but it's a bad thing because I just feel bad doing it. I know that it's just a thing that happens, but you know, like he's my person, I feel bad doing that to him.
Neil Redfern:There you go, Helen.
Helen Williams:I don't know what you're talking about.
Neil Redfern:I would say that before we start recording. But I know that I can be a nightmare Second shooting with you, especially Helen, like I find it hard to say to myself, because we work slightly differently. We've got our own businesses, we shoot together separately. We often do shoot together, but it's more defined first person, second shooting. We second shoot for each other. I know that I'm a nightmare, even second shooting, because I can't let go. I'd like to think I do hide it from my couples and from your couples as well, helen, but I definitely project it onto Helen the amount of weddings we're leaving. I'm so sorry, ignore me, ignore what I'm saying, and I feel awful, but I can't. I don't know, I can't, just like.
Martin Hobby:You're human.
Neil Redfern:You need that weight.
Moira La Plante:Yeah.
Neil Redfern:And it's expectations, isn't it? The more you shoot, the more experience you have, the more you're showing these incredible images you two do all the time to the world. You're thinking, god, this couple expects so much from us, and if something is playing against us on the day whether it's like the makeup parties or makeup room two hours late, I feel, then the expectation on you is so great. How are we going to perform it? How are we going to produce? And it's that stress, and I'm not very good at just holding that in. I do definitely project it and I do think you'd bear the brunt of it a lot of the time, helen. So again, I publicly apologise for the old times.
Helen Williams:Aww, yeah, you're an absolute nightmare, but I love you. Yeah, to be fair, like us two days today, we don't really. We just get along like I did the way that you talk about Jesse making you laugh, yeah, yeah, the last one they'll shot for me. I'm like, ah, sorry, go on.
Neil Redfern:Neil, no, I'm not sure what you do, sorry. Like you say, day to day we live in each other's pockets 24-7, and never argue. But on a wedding day it's a completely different story, and I wish it wasn't. But yeah, anyway.
Helen Williams:So Neil's, like do you want me to come to this wedding with you?
Martin Hobby:And now I'm like now mate, it's alright, you're stretching me out.
Helen Williams:I'm a bit more of a chilled out person. My couple said to be quite chilled and like party centric. I obviously tried to get epic and I'll work my best to get epic. But at the same time it's like I don't think I have that same level of pressure because I'm not Neil Redford in some way.
Neil Redfern:No, no, you just handle it better. You're able to deflect it a little bit, I think.
Helen Williams:Yeah, you know what it is, what it is, that's what I try to do. But Neil doesn't really want to accept that and gets a bit stressed and I'm like, mate, chill out, it's my wedding, it's not even yours.
Moira La Plante:It's because you care, neil. Yeah, like sometimes.
Neil Redfern:Thank you, we'll take that. I'll take that it is a slave.
Jesse La Plante:I mean, yeah, it's like I'm a recovering perfectionist, where you know I hold myself to these super high standards. It's not even like I know that the couple is probably going to be happy with whatever we shoot, if there's a surprise videographer that shows up and we only have 20 minutes to shoot portraits and they take 15 and we have five. We're going to still take like two or three portraits. The couple is really going to like they never complain. It's really, it is self-imposed pressure for me.
Helen Williams:Yeah.
Jesse La Plante:And it sounds like maybe for Neil too where I have, if it's, if I'm not like knocking it out of the park, I get really, really down to myself, and you know, when you're not happy with yourself you're not going to be happy with the people around you either. So you know that's going to come out in all sorts of you know, not very healthy ways.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, yeah, so you know, maybe it's coming from a good place deep down, but it's also just not. You know, it's not a good mentality to have for us or for anyone else.
Neil Redfern:I agree with exactly what you said, Jesse Both parts. Yeah, there is a way of looking at this which is quite a positive spin, which is you are striving to be the best version of yourself and you're trying to produce the best images you can, but that does come at a cost and, yeah, I'm always apologizing on the way back.
Moira La Plante:At least you apologize for it. Yeah, exactly.
Neil Redfern:Oh no, I'd like to think I always do. Is that fair to say, helen?
Helen Williams:Yeah, you do always yeah, but yeah.
Neil Redfern:But I should be able to stop it from happening before it does. That's where I struggle, but I'm at McDonald's on the way home. I always thought so.
Moira La Plante:We did find out fairly early on, once we kind of figured out that this is what was happening. We do have a phrase that kind of helps snap us out of it, and whoever's not doing whoever's being yelled at and not doing the yelling will say, hey, we're on the same team and that's what it reminds us of is that when we've had this discussion, we know where it's coming from.
Moira La Plante:So you know that's sort of the signal that you know if I'm yelling at Jesse, he knows that it's not about him. But he also knows that I need to like now that I've released that vent a little bit I need to like focus and you know we're on the same team and we have the same goals.
Helen Williams:Oh, I feel like we're in a nice counseling session now.
Moira La Plante:No, I'm not.
Helen Williams:This hot podcast is like how can I siphon like good information from Byron and Jesse about like living together, working together and still just being so adorable and happy and yeah, as you guys are after all these years?
Jesse La Plante:Well, we just had to keep it together for an hour on the podcast here.
Martin Hobby:Like you don't know what goes on behind this. I don't want to.
Jesse La Plante:You know, the day to day is definitely not so bright and shiny, but I think, one.
Jesse La Plante:The biggest tip that I have is that like the importance of taking time apart, so we are very intentional about having our own interests and taking time. Like you know, I'll go on a hike for five hours and more can have the house to herself. She'll go work at a coffee shop or at the library so that I can have the house to myself. We'll take separate mini vacations like little retreats where one of us we don't have to do as much. Now we have this gigantic house in the mountains To go to the East Wing and you can go to the West Wing.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, like, just look at your wing, we would you know.
Jesse La Plante:I would take three days at a cabin in the mountains and sort of unplug and just focus on work.
Jesse La Plante:Wow, and then she would do the same thing, and I think there's. You know, there is a tendency among some couples to look at that as a negative thing or almost like a little bit jealous. Love of jealousy, like you don't want to be around me 24 seven, you must not love me. But we found that that's a healthy thing, is to be, you know, trustful and respectful and understand that you're. You know we're married and we're very much together, but we're also our own separate people and we have to retain our own identities and we have to take that time apart. We have a lot of the same interests, but we have different interests as well.
Jesse La Plante:So I think you have to foster those in that in the long term pays dividend.
Neil Redfern:Oh, it's fantastic advice. What will we speak about literally last night, Helen?
Helen Williams:Yeah about that and having that separate time, and I was like I was about to say I bet Neil's already on Airbnb.
Neil Redfern:No, but I just think it's really refreshing actually to, because, yeah, it's easy to hear that and think, well, you were time apart, but no, you like to say you're your own individual people, and I think that's when you rough and recharge as well.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, you can. I think this came from the pandemic because, you know, 2020 was such a stressful year and even though we had already lived and worked together and had, you know, a skill set around that, so we weren't the couples that were suddenly thrown together and didn't know how to handle it, it was still a lot of time together during a really, really stressful period where you're like are there still going to be weddings? Are people still going to hire photographers? How do I work with a mask? How do I do this? How do I adjust to the fact that nobody seems to care about our health and we have to continue working every week? And so, at the end of that season, I turned to Jesse. I was like I'm booking a week in Keystone. I love you. You're not invited. He's like cool sounds great.
Jesse La Plante:It's the idea of you know absence making the Harcrow Fonder too right. Like if you're around someone 24, seven, all the time, it doesn't matter if it's your favorite person in the world, you're going to start hating them after a while, right? You're just going to start hating the way they talk or their face or something, right?
Jesse La Plante:I'm exaggerating a little bit, but I feel like everybody can probably relate to this where if you're constantly around someone like yeah, there's going to be annoyances, so the best way is to just step apart for a bit and that's knowing that that's fine and that it's all you know. It's a healthy thing and it's not because you hate each other, it's just because of this constant exposure. You've had right.
Helen Williams:So yeah, this really is now a counseling session. I mean, I was just really refreshing.
Neil Redfern:I was just really refreshing, though I really admire your honesty. I don't know if anyone could disagree with what you're saying either, especially those of lip-watching your shoes. You know it is really difficult.
Moira La Plante:No, we both really value that time apart. I'm going to do a second worst one.
Jesse La Plante:Second worst. Oh, how many worst do you have here?
Moira La Plante:No, I don't have that many, but it was something that Helen said about you know, like working with Neil, like the Neil Redfern, that would be terrifying too. I think that one of the things I struggle with and this is a very self-imposed thing, like it's a problem in my own creation, but the business is named after him, you know, and I feel like I am constantly struggling to remind people that I take photos too, you know, and it doesn't matter that, you know, jesse says oh, she does all the business stuff, like, for some reason, especially within the education community, sometimes people forget that I'm there.
Jesse La Plante:They're like oh, what can I learn?
Moira La Plante:Yeah.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, I mean. I do want to mention, though, that it was your idea to name-.
Moira La Plante:Oh, absolutely no. That's why I said it's a problem of my own making.
Jesse La Plante:Well, everybody thinks that, oh, Jesse, you named the business after yourself, but it was more his idea at the time, because you were mostly focusing on the business and not shooting. Well, and I also and now, we just have, like this, 15 years of branding, so we haven't changed it.
Jesse La Plante:But it is very much both of us. And what was that last wedding that we went to the father? We were at the rehearsal dinner and the father, the groom, came up and he comes right up to me and shakes my hand and he's like oh, you must be the photographer and this must be your lovely assistant. I about slapped him. Oh, jesus, oh, oh. I was like actually she's been a professional photographer for 15 years sir but thank you for assuming traditional gender roles, oh yeah.
Helen Williams:And he didn't know the name of her business.
Jesse La Plante:No, he just sees two people and automatically assumed that I was the photographer.
Neil Redfern:Yes, and that she was we come across it all the time as well that if I'm helping Helen out at a wedding, I'll often be asked questions. People will assume I'm going to be doing certain things, on whether it be group shots or can you give us a business card, but look up to me and I'll say I'm just Helen today. I'm just Helen. There's the boss over there. But, like you say, it's really sad to see ingrained in people, unfortunately, isn't it?
Moira La Plante:Well, but I will say, just like a reaction like that is really helpful, you know, because Jesse is the one who tells him that. No, you know, like if it was me standing up for myself, then sometimes it just feels like oh, you know, she's a pushy woman, especially like he was from a certain generation that has I can imagine yeah. So having then the person that he thinks is the showrunner kind of correcting him and guiding him, I think goes so much further than if it was me doing it.
Neil Redfern:Yeah, it's a nice mic drop moment, isn't it?
Helen Williams:Yeah, I'm just wondering. As I'm not wondering, I do know, Maury, you've also done some family work, I believe don't you?
Moira La Plante:I do yes, primarily for past clients. It's not just like I don't restrict it to past clients, it's more. My litmus test is if they want to be my client, they got to be a cool person Because they don't want to work. We have a rule that we don't work with.
Moira La Plante:And so that's something too with the family photography.
Moira La Plante:I want to make sure that we maintain that level of client service people who I can care about essentially, you know, if they're just coming in, they want the matching outfits, they want the mountain background not really my clients, so it's more of a documentary approach.
Moira La Plante:So, like I went to Denver a couple of weekends ago and went to the zoo with this couple and their two kids that I've been photographing every six months for the last three years and being able to watch them grow up and see them experience new things, and I get to know the family really well and I really like that and I get to know the kids and see them grow and learn about their different interests, and then we always pick something that has to do with that interest. Like their little girl is just wild about horses, so for her birthday one year they took her horse back riding and the look on her face was just pure joy and I feel like those photos represent that personality. I hope, my hope is that she looks back at those photos and says those capture who I was at that time and really like something in me that hasn't changed.
Moira La Plante:I'm still that person. Rather than the stand in the line, fake smiles like do the head swaps if someone's eyes are closed, matching outfits, kind of thing.
Jesse La Plante:So it's my favorite thing about it is so she'll photograph these kids throughout their whole lives. So she'll do a newborn session in three months, six months, nine months a year, maybe like two years.
Martin Hobby:So it's sort of like this long term project.
Jesse La Plante:And then she puts all those photos from the entire chronology into a slideshow with, like this, really moving music. So then, you see, and I didn't really get it 100% until I saw the slideshow and I was like getting a little bit teary eyed and I didn't even know these kids.
Jesse La Plante:So I could just imagine what it's like for their parents to see this. Right. And it's not, like she says, not posed. It's not. We're all wearing matching khaki pants on the beach and looking at the camera, which is also why it's mostly our past clients, because they already understand the documentary approach. We don't have to start from square one. But, yeah, just seeing that and how moving it was and we don't have kids of our own but seeing that with the music and everything and watching these kids grow up in their actual day to day life and seeing them grow is incredible.
Neil Redfern:Wow, what a gift as well to give to the family that's going to be such an heirloom. Out of interest, Maru, what's the longest you've been working with a particular family to create those?
Moira La Plante:That would be my niece. Yeah, and that's really what it started with is, my niece was born in. You looked at the photo about 2016, 2017.
Jesse La Plante:I think she must have been born in 15, and you started shooting in 16? Yeah?
Moira La Plante:I don't know. So when I went to visit so my family's in Montana, and when I went to visit my brother for the first time after my niece had been born I think she was about eight or 10 months old I just took the camera and I just would take it out and take some photos and the nice thing is, because it is my brother's family, I would just hang out with them.
Moira La Plante:We would go do the regular stuff, like we went to a brewery, have photos of her trying to get her little hands and beer and I could just snap away and my brothers are used to that, so they just were themselves. And then my niece, elsa, has just grown up with this, so I try to visit once a year and do those photos and just hang out with her, and it's been really fun. It's been interesting as she gets older because I am trying to work with her on consent. I want her to be a willing participant in the photos and there have been times when I've said, hey, elsa, can I get my camera out? And she's like no, and I recognize that that means she just wants to hang out with me, which is also really cool.
Moira La Plante:And then other times I'll take the camera out and just capture her in her wild lovely and she's living the most magical childhood ever on a ranch in Montana and there are cows and sheep and chickens and dogs and cats and just all the kinds of stuff, and so, yeah, being able to watch her grow and then also seeing my photography change over the course of that, I think has been really interesting.
Jesse La Plante:She also goes to this one-room schoolhouse just in the middle of nowhere, but in the most naturally beautiful landscape you can imagine, and there's what like 10 or 15 kids or something, All in the same schoolhouse, different ages. So she more documented her first day of school as she arrived and then was crying because she didn't want to get left there. It's like all these different moments that are real moments of showing what actually happened and who she is, which also feeds into our. I think we're probably most well known for portraits at weddings but, like 90% of what we actually do on the wedding day is this journalism. So she's getting really good at practicing those journalistic skills during these family shoots and trying to find those actual, authentic life moments that aren't so contrived.
Moira La Plante:Well, and the interesting image is in what most people think is boring. Like most people and this is the struggle with the documentary family photography is you talk to these clients and the families are like our lives are boring and it's like. I promise you they are not Like. Please just let me come hang out with you. It's like having a friend who has a camera and I just go and I spend a day with them and I take the camera out sometimes and I interact with the kids sometimes and I chat with the parents but really being able to see the things that they are too entrenched to see. Parents always have this way that they kind of pat their kids head or just these little touches that they never notice. But I'm able to see that, partially because they're paying me to do, but also because I'm an outsider, so I can come in and see these things that are so natural to them, which then, like two to three years down the line, they're going to be like oh my gosh.
Moira La Plante:I remember that and it's so different now. Like I had one family they have twins who were born during the pandemic and I did a one year package with them and like two years later the mom wrote me a little text and just said I'm looking back at the photos and you took this photo of us like mashing up raspberries and cutting up deli turkey because they had just started eating solid foods. And she's like I remember how many times we had to do that and at the time I was like why is she taking a photo of raspberries? But now I look back and it represents this time of their life that we aren't going to get back, but it was captured there and even the things that we didn't think about feel important now.
Helen Williams:It's been so lovely watching you both speak about that. I feel like you've just lit up, moira, whilst discussing that, and I know both Neil and I were just smiling the entire way through and it's kind of, yeah, as much as we can joke about on these podcasts or talk about I don't know, flash settings, and it's just remembering that the unique gift that we're able to give to people, and it must be really, really nice to have a different outlet for that. And it was so lovely how Jesse pointed out how that what you learn within that family in documenting can be applied to your weddings as well, because I was going to ask if there was anything else that you find inspiration from that feeds into weddings. But it's really clear that that does, moira. Where do we look or where do we find more information on this family work?
Neil Redfern:Because yeah, I need to see it yeah. I'd love to see it.
Moira La Plante:OK, so I'm really bad at promoting this stuff. I'm literally in the process of creating a new website. It is JLaPlantFamilycom, so there's just a little update page there. In the next two weeks I'm hoping I will have a new website up and then I do have an Instagram. It's JLaPlantFamily. I am awful at posting to Instagram. I think I will probably be handing that over to Jesse.
Jesse La Plante:He does not mind the last two weeks. I've taken some time to go back through her last seven to eight years of shooting this stuff and picking out what I think are some of the best ones, so we can mix them with so many. So anyways, the moral of the story is you can't really see it now. It's just for the families. But hopefully we'll be able to get on that soon, once wedding season and conference season winds down a bit.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, amazing. It is a priority to get something up, because I do like I have been doing this long enough. It's been more of a like kind of in the background thing, but I'd love to do more, especially the area that we move to. I think there's so many really interesting stories in this rural area and I'd love to attract some more clients here, especially on the ranch, if we can. So yeah it is a priority.
Jesse La Plante:There hasn't been a need for any promotion just because it's fed via our wedding couples, so it's like we haven't needed to do a tract new couples yet. But yeah, maybe we can branch out a little bit and put some more stuff online.
Helen Williams:Yeah yeah, I think it's just more for everyone to look, because I know that if everyone listening to this podcast has the same sort of emotional reaction that I've had hearing you speak about it, I know that lots of people will be like I want to see one. Otherwise, I don't know whether you're able just to put a bit in the Flashmasters Facebook group or share a little something, because that would be really nice to see.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, what we need to share is those slideshow, the videos with the music. To me that's the most like. The stills are great, but when you put them all together and you see the evolution is where it really really hits you. At least, that's definitely what it did for me.
Moira La Plante:It is. And again, like we don't have kids, you know. So it's been fascinating for me to I've had certain kids where, as a newborn, you already see their personality starting. So then, like when I photographed them as a three year old, I'm like yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw that I had one kid in specifically where I looked at him as a newborn. I'm like this kid's going to be an engineer and by the time he was three, he's like taking their remote control apart and, just like you, know figure he loves to figure out how things work and it's just been really cool to see you know again those consistencies as they grow.
Moira La Plante:there is still that consistency of who they are.
Helen Williams:Oh, you're selling me like I can't keep on top of all the work I've got on already. But yeah, I'm intrigued. I would love to see that and I think I'm definitely going to be inspired by it. So the question was what's there any sort of big mistakes that you tend to see new photographers making who are coming into the?
Moira La Plante:industry. Yes, absolutely. I think the number one mistake and I wouldn't even limit this to new photographers it's self limiting beliefs. I think it's very true with new photographers. But I would say the number one thing, or number one or two we we see it a lot with things that we do frequently, which is getting up close and personal and then also using flash during the ceremony.
Moira La Plante:I we get so much pushback when we talk about how we do that, where people are like no, the guests are going to be annoyed, the couple is going to be annoyed, these people are going to be annoyed. This is and we have never had that happen, and I think that it's so many people just internalize it and they think that the guests are going to be annoyed. But when we try it, when we get up close and personal, when we use flash during the ceremony, you know we've literally never had anyone complain and be like get that camera out of my face or like can you turn the flashes off. Think about what you're afraid of doing and ask yourself if you really need to be afraid of doing it. Are you not doing it simply because you're afraid, or is there like an actual legitimate reason? And I think most of the time it falls into the. I'm afraid of it so I'm not going to do it.
Neil Redfern:Yes, good advice.
Helen Williams:Yeah, I'm well, I'm 10 years into business now and I'm like, yep, you speak as straight to me there. I mean I do it too. Yeah, it is limiting belief. So I'm sure when I was really new, I thought I was bleeding fantastic, and reality was that I wasn't. But yeah, I think I was like, yeah, could be seen that the better that you get and the more that you know, the worst that you believe that you are. So, yeah, that's the done in crew.
Jesse La Plante:If you, if you don't know anything about something, you think you know a lot more than you do because you're not. You're not high up enough to see the whole view right. But then the more you learn about something, the more you recognize how much more there is to learn. And then you start to check yourself a little bit for sure. But yeah, with the self limiting beliefs. Just to build on that, I think was it someone at a workshop or one of our WPP PI photo walks who they said like we, we sort of demonstrated our off camera flash lighting for portraits for like an hour and then she came up. She's like that was amazing, but I can't do any of that because I shoot solo. I don't like to have like I don't have my spouse, I don't like to have a second shooter, I don't have a lighting assistant, I like to shoot solo. So I can't do any of that. But in actuality I went, I took her through all the five setups that we did and showed her how she could very easily do that on her own, including boom lighting, which is like the light way up above. It's just you need a specific type of stand and a weight right. It's just that it takes like an extra maybe 60 seconds per setup to do that and run back and forth if you have to tweak the light right. Or you could recruit a bridesmaid or a groomsman to come help you, or a guest you know, or a father or mother there's usually there's someone willing to help out.
Jesse La Plante:So, talking about self-limiting beliefs, you know, ask yourself how can I make this work for me, or what part of this, whatever it is you know, whether it's off camera, flash or, you know, ceremony or any of the things you talked about is. Don't just write it off and say, no, I can't do that, right, say how can I do that? Or how can I take a part of that and maybe blend it with what I already do, right? So just having a, you know, a positive attitude and looking on the bright side with these things, because there's always a workaround, and that's kind of what I wanted to ask you guys too, because you shoot separately, do you have? Do you bring lighting assistance with you? Do you do it all on your own? And how does that change when you, when you two, work together on a wedding day?
Helen Williams:Yeah, most of the time I do shoot solo. And yeah, I just grab a drunk groomsman and off we go. I'm like, do you fancy being my bitch? And I will literally say, hey, over here, bring the light and to be, fair. My groomsmen tend to really enjoy being called. Are they telling me they do, because I'll do it the first time? They're like I'm really sorry. And most of them are like oh no, I quite like it. Oh my.
Martin Hobby:God.
Helen Williams:Chariots. So yeah, so Neil's going to have so many bleeps now.
Moira La Plante:Bleep. Well, I mean talking about ideal clients, that's, you find your ideal client. They're going to have the drunk groomsman who's going to be perfect for that and, you know, work really well with you.
Helen Williams:Yeah, it can be a little bit more hit and miss because you know sometimes they're lighting the floor instead of the couple because they've had a few drinks. So, they require a bit of coaching, but generally as well. Any banter that I can have with that groomsman just kind of takes attention from the couple as well, I think. So they. I think they quite enjoy that too, Neil.
Neil Redfern:Although technically, I should be shooting most weddings on my own, I haven't actually done that for a long time now. I've had a second shooter now for, I would say, the past years with a wedding, and one of the reasons is being inspired from photographers like yourselves with those lighting techniques. I think if I don't have someone along with me now, I feel like my product, my end result, isn't going to be as strong as it should be. So, yeah, I've started bringing people, even if it's not an established photographer oftentimes it is. Oftentimes Helen will kindly come with me. I'll invite someone who's maybe just looking for experience, just so I've got that, that ability to to create the images which I, which I want to create now, which is often using the lighting techniques you just described, jesse.
Neil Redfern:So, yeah, for me, I don't really want to shoot a wedding on my own anymore because I feel like I would struggle. I've always got used to having somebody there, and it's not just even going back to what we said before, it's not just a photography side either, it's also having somebody to bounce off and somebody to vent to as well. Sometime, just to unload, it must be at least a year since I shot a wedding on my own, which is crazy really, and when you go back now and look at the results, you see it like to your eye.
Jesse La Plante:you're seeing an improvement in the work?
Neil Redfern:Yes, definitely. So. I shot a wedding on Sunday. We spoke out in the last podcast, actually did not stop raining from the moment I woke up in the morning till the moment I got back. So woke up at 8am, got back here at half one in the morning, never stopped raining the whole time. So we needed to work for pork. We did go outside for portraits in the rain, but needed to work really quickly, and I had a friend of mine, tony Darcy, second shooting for me on that day, although second shooting more, you know, more of a support role really, as well as second shooting, as she was holding the light and I just realised how quick I can work when you've got somebody holding a light.
Neil Redfern:Admitted, I should have been doing a lot of these shots with a tripod, but I'm just hand holding Okay, okay, we've got one. Now you can just leave this frame, tony, take another one, move on to the next shot rather than put the lights on here, going back to the camera on the tripod. Take another one, go away, take. So yeah, that's the problem. I've almost been spoiled now and I think it's hard to go back. That's why I'm so jealous, in a way, of you two, because you're always working together and not only do you always have each other there, but you've also got that sort of what's the word like, this ability to mind read each other, and that is going to take your work up levels. I'm sure you both feel a bit daunted if you're thinking you didn't have each other and you're going to a wedding solo because you know that you're not going to be able to produce what you can as a team.
Moira La Plante:Yeah, no, absolutely I mean. I wouldn't have been doing photography if I hadn't met Jesse.
Jesse La Plante:Sorry, my fault. No, it's not that. Slide into us moments. You're trapped now.
Moira La Plante:I know, no, I love it, it just wasn't ever on my radar. You know, again, like I just I had the business sense and that's what I did in my kind of previous life in my office jobs was, you know, just problem solver Jane of all trades, it doesn't matter what the topic is. And so he gave me a topic and I just kind of ran with it.
Helen Williams:Oh, I love that. It's so nice that you have these complementary skills and, yeah, I think we did some extra chats and some mentoring by my error, actually to get off business heads on. Actually, let's recruit by rare oh, that feels a bit bad on, jesse Well, recruit your boat, or something.
Jesse La Plante:No, that's, I'm cool hanging out here. Like we said, time apart, right.
Helen Williams:Incredible. So, guys, thank you so so much. Well, thank you for many things for being incredible ambassadors, for teaching us so much and it is genuinely you with the boom lighting, etc. Has completely changed the way that both Neil and I work.
Helen Williams:And we're seeing through the entries for flashmasters awards, what people are posting in the group. The influence that you've had on our community has been that undescribable. So thank you so, so much for that, and then obviously we'll quickly circle back because I don't want anyone to miss any opportunity to learn from you guys, because you really are absolutely amazing. So yeah, can we just remind everyone or give some information on how they can book on to your distilled workshop in Leeds?
Neil Redfern:Just to say it's not just Leeds, you also have them other places as well, because we will have people listen all over. So any any up? Oh, we were actually got.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, so we have three coming up in the fall, in September. We have distilled Dallas, Texas, which is the same one day workshop. It's right before we are going to be visiting our Gicoto sponsors who are based in Dallas. So it's the same thing. It's one day, it's business, it's off camera flash, it's photo journalism, but it's all the, all the key points. Right there. We've kind of trimmed all the fat. Same thing in Leeds in November, on Sunday the 12th, right before nine dots. And I should also mention that if you're attending nine dots, we have a discount code for you. Reach out DMS, email us and we'll send you the discount code, which is for 100 pounds off. And we have a few spots still for our fusion workshop. We always have to come up with some pretentious name for all of our workshops.
Jesse La Plante:Very cool though these one word workshops are really cool Fusion workshop, which is us teaching alongside Jason Vincent and Christian Cardona. It's a three day workshop where we each take a day, and so it's sort of like three mini workshops, but we also meld them together, hence the name fusion and that's in Woodland Park, colorado, which is near Colorado Springs, in the mountains. It's beautiful and we have a handful of spots left for that. It's going to be in October.
Helen Williams:There's seven times. I really want to go.
Neil Redfern:The great thing is for that all of you, as educators, must learn from each other as well, seeing what we should do, yeah, when we, you know we we taught workshops for a few years and we're like, okay, how can we do this differently?
Jesse La Plante:We also want to take these, like these other people's workshops. I remember writing to Christian and said, hey, you should bring your workshop to I think it's called is called Beyond Light to Denver because you want to take it. And he said something like oh no, if I'm coming to Denver, I'm taking your workshop. We're like that's very kind of you to say but hold on a second, so we're clearly taking yours. And he's like Okay, how about this? Why don't we just teach one together and then?
Jesse La Plante:we love to birds of one sound. We're like that is a great idea. So we kind of ran with that idea and and yeah, so it's great. So we get to learn from other photographers, we get to be students and teachers at the same time and we love it, yeah, so so fusion is Jaila plantcom slash fusion and distilled is Jaila plantcom slash distilled for anyone interested.
Moira La Plante:And or you could just go to Jaila plantcom slash education and has all of our stuff there. So that'll list upcoming speaking engagements. We have a mentoring that we offer, which is online. So if you can't make it to any of these but you still want to learn maybe one specific thing, you can do that, and then it will also be updated with the most recent workshops that we have coming up.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, that's it. Hope to see you guys all soon.
Helen Williams:Yeah, I don't know how you keep on top of it all.
Moira La Plante:I don't either, no, no.
Jesse La Plante:Coffee, coffee is a big part of it.
Neil Redfern:No, thank you both. So so much I've loved this podcast and, again, just to echo what Helen said, thank you for being a part of the flashmasses community, not only as people found us out on this podcast, not only are you incredible photographers, but you also embody the ethos of flashmasses in terms of being supportive, helping each other, sharing information, showing all the behind the scenes that you have and, yeah, it's just a privilege to know you both. So so, thank you both and thank you for today on the podcast.
Jesse La Plante:Yeah, the feeling is mutual. Everything you guys do, you work your asses off. You've built a great community. We're honored to be a part of it and we can't wait to see how it grows in the future.
Neil Redfern:Thank you, thank you and I can't. Well, both of us cannot wait to meet you later this year. Absolutely, it's going to be dangerous.
Moira La Plante:Helen and I are going to drink a glass of champagne. I know I'm scared of this and but we determined that luckily, there are no bears in Leeds, and so we will not be eaten by bears.
Martin Hobby:That should be the tagline.
Moira La Plante:Well, I am going to nine dots. We will not be eaten by a grizzly. I invited her here to like drink, but then we determined that maybe the bear would be a little dangerous, if we know the bears.
Jesse La Plante:We only have black bears and they're very scared of humans, so everybody come visit especially you two.
Helen Williams:Yes.
Neil Redfern:Oh, I love to.
Helen Williams:We want to come and see the sunset, yeah exactly.
Neil Redfern:Just sit on your balcony for two weeks. That's my favorite thing to do here. Amazing, amazing, hello. Like you close it out, I think you're going to want to say, isn't there?
Helen Williams:Well, I don't know, I'm just like.
Moira La Plante:Jesse Am I going to?
Helen Williams:want to say it.
Moira La Plante:Well, you guys don't, can we do the word, the secret word. Oh word of the week yeah, Word of the week.
Neil Redfern:Let's bring it back.
Moira La Plante:Okay, I have one.
Neil Redfern:Give all of them.
Moira La Plante:Americas.
Neil Redfern:There you go. So if you hear, if you've listened to this, find the podcast. Thank you. Please post that in the Flashbasket Facebook group and just with no context, just that word will know that you're a real diehard listener.
Helen Williams:And I just think for all of eternity. If people like to whisper that one word to me, I'm instantly going to blush.
Jesse La Plante:We're not talking about one America. Here, guys, we're talking about all of the Americas. Many of them, that's America. We're dying first. Thank you guys, so much.
Helen Williams:Thank you very much, everyone. So, yeah, I'm rubbish at the editing podcast and he'll you carry on.
Neil Redfern:Okay. Well, if you'd like to join Jesse Mara and Helen and I in the flashmash community, you could do so at flashmastersco. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, mara and Jesse, again for joining us, and anything you want to say, helen.
Helen Williams:Yes, don't forget to keep flashing.
Neil Redfern:So you have to hear that.
