Flash Masters

Helen breaks a record at her recent wedding...

• Neil Redfern & Helen Williams • Episode 54

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In this episode we catch up on our recent weddings and share insights from the Flash Masters community, including the fabulous work of Dru Dodd and Esteban Gill's in-depth explanations on creating stunning group portraits. Not to mention, we chat about Neil's upcoming Shine Workshop in Wales. A unique experience, where we plan to record a Flash Masters podcast in front of a live audience!

Ever wondered about the vibrant coluors and the rich cultural traditions that make Indian and Jewish weddings a spectacle to behold? We take you on a journey through our personal experiences photographing these extraordinary events. From the engagement parties to Haldi ceremonies, every moment is a celebration filled with stories waiting to be captured. Additionally, we dish out some valuable tips and tricks on how to navigate these weddings, along with advice on preparing for the colder months.

'Workflow' is a term often thrown around, but have you ever thought deeply about its importance in wedding photography? We wrap up the episode sharing our thoughts on the need for a streamlined workflow, especially when dealing with a flurry of wedding images. And for a little inspiration, Helen recounts her recent experience with creating her first reel on Instagram.

Join us in the Flash Masters community:

Website: https://flashmasters.co/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flashmasters/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@flash-masters

Flash Masters is hosted by:

Helen Williams: https://www.instagram.com/helenwilliamsphotography/
Neil Redfern: https://www.instagram.com/neilredfern/

Intro:

Welcome to the Flash masters podcast. Flash masters recognizes and celebrates the best flash photography in the world through education, awards and community. To find out more and to join the Flash masters community, visit flashmastersco. Here are your hosts, Helen Williams and Neil Redfern.

Neil:

Hi everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Flash masters podcast with me, neil Redfern, and me, helen Williams, and in today's episode we're going to be having a catch up about our recent weddings, because we've been incredibly busy recently but we haven't actually spoke about this on the podcast. That's the last episode of the podcast. We were talking about the big announcements that we made Flash masters' first birthday, which, if you're not listening to it, please go back and listen to that episode. We talked about how we've now got a new member of the Flash masters team, mr Matt trott, the introduction of business school for Flash masters members in 2024 and our two new sponsors, canon and Aftershoot. So we wanted to. They were a huge piece of news for us. We wanted to dedicate a whole episode to that, but we've not spoken about just how what we've been up to in our weddings.

Helen:

No, we haven't, and I'm just absolutely exhausted Thinking about everything we've done over the last few weeks.

Neil:

Yeah, and also little Peak behind the curtain. We're recording this straight after recording the last episode. Oh yeah, Giving it all away so you've just come off the back of shooting two weddings.

Helen:

Yes, two in a row. I would love to say that this is my last two of the row of the year, but it's not unfortunate. It's not unfortunately. You know, it's always good to be busy, but I have another back to back wedding and those ones actually will link into something. I'd like to quiz you on about my next back to back weddings. We just have to finishing one of your workshops, Neil, and that leads me to think that when we release this podcast, we'll actually be at one of your workshops.

Neil:

Yes, if I get this edited in time, this will when this first comes out. Yeah, we will be in Wales, in your homeland, in Slangorchle. Yeah, for the first of my two shine workshops. I'm really looking forward to these. Yeah, this is two three day workshop. It's well, it's a three day workshop that I'm running twice in October and it'll be the first time I've ever run a workshop that has not just been for one single day.

Helen:

And where are you doing again, Neil?

Neil:

Clanglucklin, I'm very rich Wales Clang. This is. I mean it's like with any. I don't know why they do this in Wales Just chuck a load of L's in when there's no need and also pronounce something completely different than it's actually written down.

Helen:

So the double L is a sound.

Neil:

L should just be L.

Helen:

But it's not so, it's slang.

Neil:

It's in North Wales for those listening.

Helen:

I just don't know how a double L otherwise to you comes out as clan. It's not clanglucklin.

Neil:

What is it then?

Helen:

Slanglucklin.

Neil:

Yeah, that one Lan Lan.

Helen:

Lan.

Neil:

Lan.

Helen:

And are you wide to be up now?

Neil:

Either way. Either way, it's going to be happening. Well, I'll say next week. It's going to be happening when you listen to this. So I also want to. Whether I actually do this or not, I don't know, but I would love to share lots of the behind the scenes as well on my Instagram. So if you do want to sort of check that out and you'll see if it's actually happened, if you want to go to Instagram and my profile, which is at Neil Redford and N-E-I-L-R-E-D-F-E-R-N, then hopefully there's going to be lots of behind the scenes on there of the workshop.

Neil:

I'm so excited for it.

Neil:

I can't wait just to get really stuck in and be able to teach more than just what I have done on my previous softcover flash workshops.

Neil:

The extra time is going to be amazing and I think what I'm most looking forward to is just how the whole group will integrate.

Neil:

It's a three day residential workshop as well, so everyone is 11 attendee myself and Helen, a number of models, but all staying at the same place, and it means that, rather than it just being I don't know 10 till six or seven, how I've done in the past, once the day's finished, we'll be eating together, we'll be socializing together and even just just chewing the wedding fat basically, and it's going to be really great, I think, to see everyone becoming friends, building relationships, and oftentimes I know when I've been on workshops myself, that is such a valuable time in terms of getting to know other photographers and those relationships can can last for a long, long time and really help you in your business.

Neil:

For example, as mentioned, it's on previous podcast, but I first met our Flashmasters ambassador, arno de Brown, on a two man workshop in Amsterdam and we became really good friends and just stayed in contact and we're now working together in flashmasters. So it's great that you will have the opportunity to do that and get to know the other attendees and part of the workshop though it's not actually part of the workshop, but in one of the evenings we're going to be recording a Flashmasters podcast, so next week's podcast could be absolute carnage.

Neil:

I'm sure it will be. Yeah, next week's podcast will be recorded at the first of my workshops.

Helen:

I'm a little nervous if I'm honest.

Neil:

Well, the recording of a podcast in a podcast recording a podcast in Wales in front of an audience.

Helen:

Yeah, that's amazing. We've never done that before.

Neil:

We've had guests on, but yeah, never actually an audience. No, I'm hoping people are lots of heckling.

Helen:

It'll be interesting. I think was it on the YouTube stream. I admitted that when I do my usual, I'm not going to like say it as I used to do, but I keep flashing at the end and when I do it like, I tend to like shake my tatters, shall we say.

Neil:

Yeah, but you've only started doing that. Since that you've not always done that.

Helen:

Oh, was it just it was jazz hands originally Jazz hands.

Neil:

Yeah, well, it'll be interesting to see how that goes down.

Helen:

I'll do some jazz hands instead of shaking my boobs.

Neil:

Also as well. Again, people who are attending the workshop will already know this, but it's not just me who's going to be doing some teaching. It's not no introducing Helen Williams. You're going to be talking or not to talking? Demonstrating how you use off-camera flash to like group shots? I am and dancing.

Helen:

I'm joking.

Neil:

So you look at, well, I know that. So how do you feel about that?

Helen:

I'm really excited. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I've been, I've been practicing, I've been, you know, trying to push my own techniques.

Helen:

Yeah, that's cool, I'm someone who's always enjoyed doing family formals, which I know for many photographers is just an absolute nightmare. But my personality I really enjoy doing them, so I've always I think I've put a lot of effort into those, whereas a lot of photographers just get them done, get them out the way and just want to see the back of them. So I'm hoping that you know the time and the effort that I've put into that. I'll have lots to share.

Neil:

One of the reasons I ask you, though, is that you're someone who likes to use off-camera flash for group photographs.

Helen:

Yes.

Neil:

Almost like regardless. The light could be good, but you still like to use it, don't you, I thought, and that's that's really interesting. I've always been really impressed with your group photographs and how you do integrate off-camera lighting, but also I know that both of us have been inspired by a lot of the images that we've seen in the FlashMasters community from many of our members and the ambassadors where they've used flash to create these incredible composite photographs, many of which have actually won FlashMasters awards. And composite photographs for groups, yes, and it's something that, apart from our member, drew Dodd, I don't think I've seen anybody doing in the UK apart from Drew, and Drew has been making these shots for a while now and they are incredible, but for the past few I don't know if you're one is you've now started doing them and I've genuinely been like whoa, that looks so good, thank, you.

Neil:

So that's why I think it's really good that you're gonna be teaching this, because when people see well one, the end result of these images, I think they're gonna. Just no one can argue that these are not stunning and far better than you could get with just natural light. That's the first thing, but I think the other thing is that you can demonstrate that they're not that time consuming or, dare I say it, difficult to do.

Helen:

Well, they can't be. If I can do them, then anyone can do them.

Neil:

Yeah, so.

Helen:

And I think that's the nice bit about when I teach, it's like, yeah, people meet me in person, they see how ditzy I genuinely am. There's nothing about me on podcast that isn't authentic or real. I really am very ditzy, very clumsy, I make mistakes all the time, but if I could still pull these off in the cousin thrust of a wedding day, literally anyone can.

Neil:

Yeah, and I think that's good because it's also from a UK centric point of view. I think there is this sort which is just not done in the UK. No, like we've seen, I say, quite a lot of the ambassadors who are based particularly in the US create these images and it's been like whoa I'm thinking Jeth Tisman, scott Jones, white, jessie Morrill, the plant there are numerous people who have done this and it's really like just brought into sharp focus how, yeah, we just don't do this in the UK. So I take my heart to Drew and to you for doing this and running with it, because it's a great way of setting yourself apart, I think.

Helen:

It really is and I think you know lots of people will think of many excuses to why they can't do it or reasons why they can't and we'll say, well in the UK we don't have time, or I don't have an assistant, I can't do it. And I'm very excited to be able to just prove them all wrong.

Neil:

Yep good. And in terms of proving people wrong, actually, another one of our members, the incredible Esther Bangill very, very kindly what a few weeks ago now came onto a live stream in the FlashMasters community and spoke about how he creates these composite group shots, and he, again, is so talented at these. And when we put the beginning part of that video onto our YouTube channel, you can go back and watch this. One of the comments was these can't be taken at a real wedding, they would take too long. And I replied on the FlashMasters account saying that is the biggest compliment you could pay to Esther Bang because, one, these are very, very real photographs taken at very, very real weddings. And two, esther Bang is proven, you don't need to take a long time over these. And just because you don't take a long time over them doesn't mean that they're not stunning. It just means that once you've got the process as you've proved as well recently once you understand what the process is, you can do these at real weddings and they don't take a long time.

Helen:

No, they really don't, and if they did take a long time, then I would mess them up because my concentration span is that of a goldfish. So, yeah, if it really was technically difficult, then I wouldn't be able to do them because, yeah, like I said, my attention span is appalling. But yeah, thank you to Esther Bang for me as well.

Helen:

I'm not sure if I've previously mentioned this somewhere, but he gave some amazing hints and tips on how to edit these, along with some of your previous YouTube videos which have revolutionized how I approach group portraits now and I'm so pleased with what I'm producing and I'm someone who's very mean and harsh on myself, but I think I've just grown so much in such a short space of time because of these incredible members of our community sharing how they create these images. So, yeah, I might be repurposing that knowledge and I'm gonna help share that at your workshops.

Neil:

And there's nothing wrong with that. You know we're all doing that. Anybody who is educating in the industry really is putting their own spin on techniques that they've learned from elsewhere.

Helen:

Yes.

Neil:

I think even if you take away the photography side of this, from a business point of view, these images will get you bookings. There's no doubt about it, especially in the UK, because we're just not used to it. The market over here is not used to seeing these types of images, and actually I'm saying just the UK, but in a matter I mean again, I'm falling guilty here of thinking that the wedding bubble that we are in is what everybody sees. It's not. We are privileged to be immersed amongst the best photographers in the world, but outside of that, you know, these images are not used to being seen by most couples. I would say.

Helen:

No, which is interesting, such as the troll who was accused accused against a ban of being a fraud and lying, and that he should be open and honest. Honestly, I think, did he use the word lying or it's disingenuous and he should just be honest I think the word fraud was in there.

Neil:

It's almost fraudulent to show these images because they're not taking it. Real weddings and they actually are, but I say what a compliment.

Helen:

Yeah, it says so much. I think you know we are very privileged in terms of you know the people who we see, and you know we are people who surround ourselves with incredible images and incredible educators, and I think we just take it for granted that most people see this too, and it's really stark and it's quite a realization that so many photographers don't have the faintest idea of what's even achievable or what should be done.

Neil:

It's a shame, it is actually a shame to be so and again, I actually said this I think I've said this to you as well, like offline, as it were. When you have a comment like that, it actually makes you feel a bit sorry for that person because being so close-minded that they don't think it's even possible, and I think, oh, what a shame to feel like that when the reality is, if they were to try this and actually learn from Esther Ban rather than just say that it's not possible, then they would open up a whole new world of creative opportunities and potential for themselves. But they don't. They just think, well, that's not real and that's the end of it. And it's for real shame, really, that you can be that I don't know that convinced that the possibilities are not there when they actually are. Yeah, I think it's a real shame and I would implore that person if they listened they won't be listening to actually try these things.

Neil:

Watch that stream again and just give it a go, because you'll see that with practice, as with many things in photography, practice will make well. Even if you're not perfect, it will make it certainly good enough to wow your clients. But again, to go full circle. We will see on the workshop, when you demonstrate this, how I don't say easy, because it's not easy, you obviously need a lot of skill but how it's achievable. And I'm really excited then to see what the people who attend the workshop will then go off and do with this technique and hopefully we'll see lots of examples of where people have actually gone and used it.

Helen:

I know I'm only doing a small part of the three days, but I think it's just going to be just to see everyone's faces as they have that opportunity and that chance to create themselves a composite group shot. Because I feel confident enough to teach it now, because I've obviously taught Flash for a long time too, so, although I haven't, but you've also- been doing it.

Neil:

You've been doing these at recent weddings. Yeah, I have, and not just like any old shops, you've. And again, I'm not just saying it's to be nice. You just really really created amazing images, to the point like even before we started this podcast you took one. Was that yesterday's wedding or the day before?

Neil:

Two days ago that wedding, yeah, and it's beautiful. In fact, I mean this is going to be a little bit further back in the Instagram stream now, but if you look at recent reels out there by Helen and we did a collaboration on the Flashmasters Instagram you can see this particular one that I've got in my mind when I'm talking about what Helen has just produced. And it's not just like, oh, you've used our come and flash to create that group shot, but you've got incredible location, the composition's amazing, the pose in is brilliant. It's not just a question of you know how to do it, but you're. You're doing it at real weddings, which I take my heart off to you because I haven't done it yet.

Helen:

No, I'm very, very pleased, considering that was my third ever attempt. I did it with 17 members of a bridal party after the wedding breakfast, when they were all quite juiced.

Neil:

And you were working on your own. Yeah, no, no, no, you had Charlotte, you had Charlotte, I did have a second shoot.

Helen:

So Charlotte did help sort of with the lighting and a little bit, to be fair, with getting people in place as well. Because when you've got 17 people who've been drinking all day, who were very to be fair, they wanted to do this shop, they were sold on the, you're going to look like you're in vogue. This is going to look like vanity fair.

Neil:

That's exactly what it looks like, though, yeah.

Helen:

Yeah, so as soon as I saw they were so involved and wanted to do the shop, but at the same time, like I said, after a good few glasses of wine and a few shots and all the celebrations and the general buzz, to get everyone in position and not really moving or very minimally moving for that amount of time was quite. Yeah, it took a quite a bit of thought and, yeah, charlotte did definitely help on that one, I will say.

Neil:

Cool. So yeah, anyway, that's the workshops, and we've also recat a little bit about what you've been up to at recent weddings. But how have your recent weddings been, helen Cause you've been really busy.

Helen:

Yeah, they've been brilliant. Yeah, it's quite easy, I think, at this time of year, to really feel overwhelmed. If I'm honest, it's easy to feel burnt out and just be like oh, come on winter, just give me some downtime.

Helen:

But I will say my couples are just incredible. They really are, and I think you know it's only getting more stronger, whilst my branding has improved and I do put myself on my heart and soul into all of my weddings and everything that I post online as well. So, generally, my couples are crazy because, as we you know, I think the saying goes, the crazier tracks crazy. So, yeah, I've had loads of fantastic weddings. I've had a couple more naked bums no naked grooms but yeah, I think now people think they need to get their b**s out for me too, far but cheeks.

Helen:

So yeah, I've got a few more but cheeks. I think people now just decide to flash me.

Neil:

How do you think I'm just going to jump in there. How's your new website working out? Do you think? Because, again, the list of the podcast will know not long ago what we talk about two months now.

Neil:

I would say, you rebranded or you had, with the help of Martin Martin Chung, you created a new website where, rather than going safe which is maybe what your old website was, where it was all more generic cliche words you went full on, helen, and the first photograph on your website is of a naked groom showing his backside, which is quite out there for a wedding photography website. And obviously it's a risk in many ways, because a lot of couples might look at that sort of image and immediately be put off. But we were always thinking, ah, but those that aren't put off are going to be really attracted to it. After a couple of months, how do you think it's working out?

Helen:

Yeah, I will say I did start to have some reservations Initially. I was hoping, because obviously it's like oh, sexy new website. Suddenly by some magic, I don't know, people are going to see it and I'm going to get loads more inquiries and things will pick up. And obviously that didn't happen. Because I didn't, I think I posted to my personal page I've got a new website, but other than that I didn't do anything to say hey, look at it.

Neil:

It's also, though, isn't it? We spoke at loads, but it's such a hard time out there at the moment, like this year has been very quiet as a whole, I would say, for inquiries.

Helen:

Yeah, and I will say that myself and Martin, whilst we were making this, we just wanted an impactful website, and the words that are put in there are genuine and they're hopefully funny and just very me.

Helen:

I didn't write words or paragraphs that are there to target Google or to target SEO no you don't yeah, so I actually went probably in reverse when it comes to SEO and people finding my website through Google. So, yeah, I did have a quiet sort of first, maybe five or six weeks, and, to be honest, I don't really track my SEO anymore. But I will say like, over the last I think three or four days, I think, I've had at least two inquiries a day, which is whereas before yeah that's brilliant, I was maybe only getting a couple of months, if I'm honest.

Helen:

Things were like. It was like tumbleweed. So yeah, I'm not sure if initially, those big changes to the website Google might have had a oh, what's going on here and hopefully the I don't know the Google gods have realized that it's still me and I haven't made any drastic changes and that my website is still a useful website for people looking for a wedding photographer.

Neil:

So I don't know whether it's just it could be, I just think on a whole I'd like to think that the market is just picking up.

Helen:

Fingers crossed. That would be really good.

Neil:

In the UK as well. Weather wise we've had a really good summer, in general, I would say, but it does feel like the past week or two things got a bit chilly. We've turned the heating on.

Helen:

It's on right now.

Neil:

Exactly, yeah, so it makes you think. Maybe people are just thinking rather than going out, being in the sunshine. We actually need to start cracking on with our planning now. Who knows? I don't know, I don't know, but it's encouraging.

Helen:

Either way, there's a definite turn or a definite vast increase in inquiries and considering I'm still not posting to Instagram anyone who listened to the imposter syndrome episode. I'm still struggling with that, so much.

Neil:

You posted to Instagram today.

Helen:

Well, yeah, but how many times have I still posted since all those months ago when I said I don't like posting to Instagram? I'm still. I've still probably got five or six weddings that I haven't done previews for online.

Neil:

Is it that you don't want to post on Instagram for the imposter syndrome reason, or is it just time?

Helen:

I still think it's more imposter syndrome at the time, because I've done the sneak peeks, I've done the previous for all of my couples.

Neil:

Yeah, you got the images there.

Helen:

Yeah, true, so yeah, there's. Anyway, that's for another episode. I'm sure I can. I can win you about that another time, but I can't remember where I'm going with that.

Neil:

I was about your recent weddings yesterday. I helped you out a little bit yesterday, now that was a really good day. But what I left at just before the speeches I wasn't really needed. Then I noticed that it's just quite a lot going on before then, which I was very pleased to finally be able To help you, because you've helped me loads at my recent weddings. But one thing I know I missed whereas a booking unicorn, that's booking with a bee, unicorn not a bull.

Helen:

No, no, it was a unicorn and it was bleeding fantastic.

Neil:

I would have liked to have seen that. I still not seen any of the images from it, but I imagine that was brilliant photograph.

Helen:

It was really really good fun. So both of my bright I had you bright yesterday both of them got on and of course there was just the usual carnage.

Neil:

Again at the same time.

Helen:

No, no only one person at a time health and safety. So, yeah, they went on separately, but of course this was they. Yeah, they got it for the evening. I thought this might have been for drinks reception, but no, they just let everyone get tanked on booze and then give them a Bucking unicorn to ride and see, yeah, we had yet another lady who wasn't planning on flashing her bottom that night.

Neil:

I took a dress on there.

Helen:

And yeah it was. It was fantastic fun. To be honest, things got quite competitive. Certain guests who were like, but I used to run race horses, or like think they were gonna be amazing and then weren't. And so, yeah, it got very competitive and was a lot of fun.

Neil:

Oh brilliant.

Helen:

Yeah, I'd like more weddings to have those, please. So, yeah, any future brides randomly listening to this, get yourself a booking unicorn, please, or a Bronco anything. The bucks it's, it's good fun, cool, I recommend. So, neil, what about you? What have you been up to? Because you've been insanely busy too.

Neil:

Yeah, I mean yeah, lots. So I have shot. I can't remember the last time we had a bit of a catch-up on weddings. I think I just shot the party of an Indian wedding, the engagement party of an Indian wedding, which was followed by a wedding fair that you had, and I think we spoke the wedding fair rings about. We spoke about that, I think yes so, yeah, that party was insane. They had still walkers, fire breathers, irish dancers, river dance were flown over from from Ireland. It was amazing and you had the.

Neil:

Yeah, I thought about I don't know. I mean words won't do it justice. It was an incredible event to be a part of. It was much bigger than I thought it would be in advance. The reason yeah. I all I knew about it in advance was Engagement party. So I got there, looked around, thought what is this? And then had to phone you up, helen, didn't I? And say you know that day off you thought you're gonna have, can you maybe come to Manchester and help me, because this is massive.

Helen:

You were just very lucky that at that point I hadn't already opened my bottle of wine and started a drink.

Neil:

Yeah, so yeah, helen did have a first day off then in a long, long time, up until about two hours after I've arrived at this particular Venue location party, whatever you want to call it and I thought, yeah, I can't do some my own. So, helen, very kindly come to help me. And you were there, I think. I think it actually took on for maybe two or three hours and you were there like six.

Helen:

Yeah, at least it was insane.

Neil:

And anyway, that Engagement party was the lead up to an Indian wedding, which I've since shot as well. And Just as that party was crazy, so was the wedding day Absolutely amazing things to photograph. I am such a fan and I love shooting Hindu weddings, indian weddings. They are so colorful, so vibrant, so packed full of incredible things to photograph. It makes I don't you what you call like Western wedding. Just see my little bit more like boring.

Neil:

Like there's so many traditions that you can photograph, like the groom, for example, arrived on a horse, we invite itself, surrounded by all his family, dancing and it's amazing with drummers, like it's so Vibrant and so exciting. He then gets off the horse and has to pay a lot I won't disclose how much, but hundreds of pounds to get into his own wedding because he has to Bargain and negotiate with the bride's family. Such good things to photograph and just amazing, amazing spectacles and yeah. And then there's all these other traditions that happen. There's so many hugs, so much laughter, so much tears. I, I love them. I've always thought that I could, you know, I'd be quite happy just shooting Indian weddings from now on, especially because that came off the back of not too long after shooting a Jewish wedding which, again, was just bonkers and the best way with Israeli dancing.

Neil:

I just love shooting these things. Oh well, that was the wedding day, but before that, on the Thursday, I photographed the sanghite, which is like another big pre-wedding party Loads of dancing. I was there for a good few hours and the dance floor was packed the whole time. Again, that was brilliant. The next morning I went back and photographed the bride having turmeric like put all over her face, which, again, I think it was called the Haldi ceremony. But again, so good to photograph. If you're a photographer like me just love shooting moments. These weddings are just a gift because you can't go wrong, because everywhere you look, these laughter, these hugs, there's stuff happening. So, yeah, that was on the Friday and that was followed bouncy, by the wedding on the Saturday, which, again I say just amazing but tiring the three things on the bounce.

Helen:

Yeah, I think you pretty much slept for a week afterwards.

Neil:

Yeah, yeah, you know it's, it's good, but yeah, wow, I was shattered and I I've not actually still at this point like called those weddings, but I'm slightly scared to as well, because I don't have a cl oh well, I do actually know Well well into five figures for the number of images that I took at that wedding.

Helen:

So oh, you don't want to know how many you took yesterday.

Neil:

Oh, how many.

Helen:

Oh you're, oh evil. I can't believe this.

Neil:

I know that because I was at my second shot. How long was I shooting for? Like four hours Tops, and I think it was two and a half thousand for me.

Helen:

Yeah Well, this is going to be the downside of backing unicorns.

Neil:

Okay. At one point, though, I can say you were shooting the groups and you said, oh, might just need to, did you? I don't? How did you actually say? You basically was saying to me on the choir oh, my God, oh, like you say in front of everyone, oh, I've just shot a lot of images and they're in the buffer, and I've never seen a buff have this many images. You want to say how many we're in? This is group shots.

Helen:

Well, can I just say that I you know I like lighting group shots. I didn't yesterday, the light was just really nice. Anyway, I didn't need to, but I love to get moments and I play.

Neil:

Yeah, you're very, you are very good at this.

Helen:

I always give certain things so I'll have everyone smiling nicely at the camera. But I've got certain things that I say they get everyone who fits a laughter guaranteed and I hope you can share them at the workshop.

Neil:

Yes, the workshop's already sold out. We can't sell them all places, but that's a very important part of the successful group photographs.

Helen:

So I think I think so too.

Neil:

Not just taking, don't just put everyone together. It's like a boring photograph and you've got lots of prompts that you say yes, that are guaranteed to get people laughing.

Helen:

Yes, but so whilst they're laughing, my finger was down, and then I do notice I'm going to put blame on you for this. I know you're gonna say I know because, just before they walked down the aisle they looked at my camera randomly and notice I was in low burst mode, which I'm trying to do because I always take too many.

Neil:

But if you're using. This is a good tip actually for real listening. If you use an off camera flash, I find it I don't know why you get less misfires If you go to we'll talk about Sony cameras here. We use a nine If you put the burst mode onto medium yeah, and for some reason it just seems to work a lot better. So I was encouraging you when you because you were having a couple of issues, weren't you? Just before the bride's going to walk back down the aisle?

Neil:

And it was very dark in there. We actually used video lights to light the ceremony. Yeah, we did, and it worked very well. But yeah, they're walking back down the aisle. You were going to use off camera flash and it wasn't triggering, yeah, so I suggested put your camera into medium.

Helen:

Yeah, so, and then I forgot that it was in medium. And then when I shot these group shots I was in silent mode and I looked down and there was 180 photos in the buffer, that's mad, I think.

Neil:

First of all, I think that's really cool, you can actually do that it is. Wow, that's amazing that the camera can actually still keep all those images in its buffer 190 plus raw files. Yeah, I mean to risk to do that, because I always think if you turn your camera off midway through, or if your battery dies, that's awful and your dip was not close to dying, but it had 20% in it, didn't? It.

Neil:

But I did on the quiet because you had you 135 on. Say, take my camera with the 135 and let that just settle down.

Helen:

Yeah. So I carried on shooting the family formals on yours, I think, on low burst mode. However, my medium burst mode family formals and a bucking bronco with people being thrown around the place, can I guess? Can I guess? Yeah, go on.

Neil:

So I think, on average, if you would have said, if you wouldn't even brought this up, I would say that if I'm adding two and a half, I think you would normally say on your own, I think I'm right in saying seven to 10,000. So you're saying it's gonna be a lot. So I'm gonna say you shot 10 on your own, which it means that the whole shebang would be 12 and a half.

Helen:

And no, it was 14 and a half.

Neil:

Wow, 14 and a half thousand. I'd love it if Ben Connelly's listen to this oh, we'd have an absolute field day.

Helen:

Yeah, he would be swearing and telling me how I don't know how he does it because Ben's work is so good.

Neil:

But Ben also takes pride in taking a tenth of that number.

Helen:

Yeah, yeah, he would absolutely drag me over the coals for that number.

Neil:

He'd take you to Dickey Beach with Monster. Very, not that even means, but yeah, 14 and a half.

Helen:

When Photomechanic loaded them all, I was like, oh my God. But yeah, also there was like smoke bombs and things and also we're all using the smoke bombs. I know my finger was down a lot because obviously the smoke blows in different directions and they're all messing around and I thought just keep your finger down and see where you can get.

Neil:

You can all go by them with a video now.

Helen:

Yeah, but yeah, 14 and a half thousand photos and a wedding that I shot pretty much on my own for most of the day.

Neil:

Well, I can say, if you were gonna work it out, take my two and a half. You still could at 12.

Helen:

Oh, whoopsie, Wow. It better be a good final gallery. That's all I can say.

Neil:

Yeah, whoa.

Helen:

Oh dear.

Neil:

I think actually that's more than I have. My friend Tony Darcy very kindly helping me on the Indian wedding that I was talking about. Because you can't shoot an Indian wedding on your own. It's just too much. So thank you, tony, so much for helping me on that one, and I'm pretty sure we did not well, I know we didn't shoot that many for an Indian wedding, with two of us the full day.

Helen:

Whoopsie, I'm laughing now but I'm glad. I've got an after-shoot, that's all I can say. After-shoot will save my bacon Because, yeah, otherwise me calling 14,000 photos would probably take me two weeks.

Neil:

It's funny I remember listening to a workshop run by two man we both love the Ani-Anna-Erica. They were talking, I think they remember saying to me that they shot 20,000. I remember at the time they wow, at that point I would probably like five or 6,000 on my own. They're saying that's crazy, but not that far off now. All it means is, if I was to shoot rather, I always shoot in low burst mode unless I'm using off-camera flash and my average if I shoot the wedding on my own, probably seven to 8,000.

Neil:

That's where I usually am, but if I was to put my camera into M rather than, you know, medium rather than low, I bet it would push it up to like 10 to 11. And then if it's two of you doing that bingo, there's your 20,000.

Helen:

Having said that as well, yesterday they had yeah, they had a flower boy, a flower man who walked down the aisle ahead of them.

Neil:

You can't blame him. He's only walking on the aisle.

Helen:

But I knew for both brides like they were walking behind him, so they had no chance of seeing him.

Neil:

So I really wanted to make sure. Damon I think he was called. You've got to blame Damon for you taking 14 and a half thousand shots.

Helen:

Damon did a really great job coming down the aisle. I know he was very nervous and isn't your typical sort of person. You would pick to be flamboyant and you know strut down the aisle throwing flower petals, but he absolutely smashed it and I didn't want to miss a moment of you know the petals leaving his hand.

Neil:

You didn't miss a moment. Well.

Helen:

I didn't because, no, I also shot that in medium too, wow. So yeah, to be fair, by the time the brides were coming down the aisle it was like, oh shit, ha, ha, ha ha.

Neil:

Wow.

Helen:

Be a bit more picky. Hella non when you press the shutter.

Neil:

Is that a record? Do you think that's a record for you? It must be.

Helen:

Yeah, I think I've done weddings where, like, three shooters have done like a full big day and done like 16,000. But considering that was mainly just me, yeah, that would definitely be a record.

Neil:

Yeah, that's crazy. So I hope, sir Hannah, and Bethany, like them, like you say you've got attitude now, so that should take some of the sting out of it.

Helen:

Yeah, it would still be. I'll still take it, you know, from 14,000, I still think I'm gonna then be left with about 6,000 to go through to get down to 101,000. So, yeah, yeah, I still dare to use AI culling.

Neil:

yet I know I need to because I hate culling. In fact, before we started recording this podcast, I've just been culling a wedding, managed to get down on the first round to 1,200. I think I've now got down to I'm about halfway through the second cull. I got down to 1,000. But I really wanna get back down to like 700.

Helen:

But to even get down to 1,200 on a first call. If I was manually doing it and it was a 6,000 image wedding guaranteed my first cull minimum is gonna be about 1,800. I'm terrible without help.

Neil:

Yeah, I'm really trying to be strict, because I think as well. It's not like we're depriving our couples of loads of images here, because how many do you need? Do you know if you're the couple? I honestly think having anything over 7,800, and I've been doing this recently, even though I feel like I shouldn't anything over that sort of number I just think he's overwhelming.

Helen:

Yeah.

Neil:

And also, potentially as well, he's diluting the overall product that we're providing. Because, ultimately, if you were to give and I'm saying this and I can't do this like I've struggled as much as you do, but if you were to give 500, and say that we have software that meant you could only export 500, it's bound to be stronger than if we're exporting 800, 900. So we are diluting the overall quality what we're providing when we give this sort of ridiculous number.

Helen:

Yeah, but I don't like making decisions. I'm not much of a decision maker and, yeah, culling one I don't think will ever ever be one of my strengths. So, yeah, I'm just really pleased. I do find it easier using Aftershoot because it's able to block images together.

Neil:

Yeah.

Helen:

Like, if it's a really important image and there's several of them together, I will go through the others within that little selection to make sure it's got the right one. But quite often I don't need to do that. So it does 100% save me a lot of time and I find it's just a little bit more manageable because it's kind of grouped into scenes as well, it feels a little less overwhelming. But yeah, I don't know what I'd do without it now.

Neil:

Cool. So anything else you'd like to share, Helen, that you've been up to?

Helen:

Yeah, well, I'm just very, very proud of myself. Obviously we talk that I don't really like posting online and I don't like putting things out there, but that group shot that we've spoken about, with 17 people in the composite, I actually remembered to use my phone and very quickly just do a little video across the room so you could see the space. That was like six seconds long and with that and the final image I made a reel. Wow, Honestly they should be fireworks and applause and, like I did, a reel.

Neil:

Very good For real.

Helen:

For real. I did a reel and I think I don't know whether you can go. Can you look back at reels? I'm sure I've only ever done one reel before and that was many years ago when they first came out, and I did a reel of going to the hairdresser.

Neil:

Exciting. Do you like having a flash there?

Helen:

No, it was just a random. I just thought I'd given a go and obviously I didn't do that well and didn't like it. I never did another one. So I've done my first proper photography reel and I'm very proud of myself.

Neil:

Very good. I'm proud of you. Go and check that out at Helen Williams photography on Instagram.

Helen:

Oh, yes, you should. It's a magic one I've probably in terms of like the quality of reels. It's not very exciting because I didn't really know what I was doing, but I put one out there, so therefore I will be proud of myself.

Neil:

No, that's really really good. Thanks, right, I think should we draw a line there.

Helen:

Well, yes, why not?

Neil:

This is the second podcast we've recorded in succession, so yeah we've done very, very well, I think. So, yeah, oh, I'm really looking forward to again, like next week's podcast will be a mess, because that will be recorded again.

Neil:

As we mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, at my Shine workshop, where people will have had a couple of drinks and will be drinking, helen and I will be recording a podcast for the first time live in front of an audience, and that audience will be invited to come up and just join us and we've got actually quite a funny game that we won't talk about it yet, but I think we're very, very good to play on that podcast. So, yeah, look out for that. That's gonna be next week, but for now, thank you so so much for listening. We hope you've enjoyed this podcast, as always. If you'd like to join us in the Flashmasters community, you can do so at flashmastersco. We would love to have you as a member. But thanks again for listening and we will see you next time.

Helen:

And don't forget to keep flashing.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Helen Williams

Co-host
Head Shot

Neil Redfern

Co-host